50 Point Tier - Discuss

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Manikalas said:
"In the extremely rare case that an individual obtains 50+ points(5+ months of attendance without using any points), that person will be given lotting priority on one and only one item at a cost of 50 points."

That tells me that if you put in the time and effort, you WILL be rewarded, regardless.
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I could slightly see this as being ok, but at the same time I don't. Like I said before not everyone has the time table to attend every single run so while it might take one person 5 months, it might take another a year. You can't really penalize the people that can't physically make every run.

I'm gonna bring up Koga Chainmail again as an example, because frankly it is the only piece I'm most familiar with. Last drop that I'm aware of was waaaaaaaaaay back in October when Tarnak won it. That's like almost 6 months since we had the 2x drop recently. We all know Koga Chainmail is a sought after item. All those people that want it are going to save up for it. In the time span since Tarnak won the drop there could have probably been the same amount of people lotting at 50 points for those two drops than there were lotting at 16 points just because of the long time span inbetween drops.

If you raise the point tier with that 50 tier, in the short run you will see certain people winning, but in the long run you are still going to be looking at a cock block for the item because people are going to be thinking "oh man I gotta save up 50pts for that koga chainmail or I'm never going to get it." Tomorrow you'll have 1 person and only 1 person lotting Koga Chainmail @ 50 points, but in half a year from now you're going to have the same amount of people lotting it @ 50 points that you do now @16 points. Then you'll be talking about raising it to 100 points.



On a side note I'd like to actually find out why people have 30+ pts in that list I posted in the first place. I know I have 30+ just cause I ran out of stuff to lot on beside 100's and probably won't have anything to lot on for a long time given what i want to level up. I myself have 2 options at this point. Either continue gathering points and go to dynamis or just stop coming period.
 
Lol Nekio beat me to what I said, but I went more in depth.

Sassafras said:
lol Aang~! I think I have 2 as well, but I'm happy with them & don't want more.

Oh somewhere along the line someone mentioned that we should plug the point list into an excel spreadsheet. It is an excel spreadsheet... in fact it's 3 or 4 excel spreadsheets now lol.

Everyone seems to be making some great suggestions for clearing out points. Personally I don't see excess points as an issue. The point system does the job of keeping random DX newcomer from snagging AF & running away.
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I assumed the list was in an excel spreadsheet, I suggested people put it in an excel sheet for their own purposes. Can't sort the columns in the forum post and in there it's sorted by name. It makes it kinda hard for a real analasys of how many points are actually floating around in the system.

Like I said I think the people with 30+ points are pretty much like me and sass who ultimately currently have nothing to lot on period and just keep coming to runs. I don't forsee it being a lot of work seeing as the list is so short, but for those 30+ point leaders is it possible for a sack to /tell and ask why do you have so many points? nothing needed to lot on anymore? you just haven't seen your af drop? Obviously if the high point people have nothing to lot on and just keep coming I just don't see how or where the 50+ point tier would even come into play and will eventually force into what me and Nekio said about 6months+ down the road. Then you'll be talking about higher tiers probably. :/
 
Exactly. If we want to go the route of adding higher and higher point tiers, we might as well just put in a bidding system. It'll accomplish the same thing.
 
I personally think the bidding system will fail. People already pussy foot around with lotting AF2 at the point values they are at now and tend to lot late after they drop for whatever reason that might be regardless if it is they are unsure, too busy on a mob, or just don't notice it in pool and people spamming ls in caps right away. Proposing bids is just going to delay those lots and get the AF2 auto'ed to someone. Then you'll also have people asking question what's the bid at now...., ect. which will delay the final lot further.
 
Rather than make it a really high tier, why not just say the top X number of people, point-wise, can choose to spend X (all, half?) of their points on one drop to get it uncontested? Honestly I wouldn't be adverse to that, if it was like...1 or 2 people per run. That way we'll never get to the point where over a dozen people have 50 points and can all just lot whatever they want without competition.

Not a lot of this really applies to me, being the odd man out. The vast majority of the runs I did with DX were before the points system was implemented, and even though I feel like I've been an important part, I'm still not even to 16 points. If you make a higher tier, I'll get screwed, but honestly that's not what upsets me at all, I know eventually I'll have the points if I keep coming consistently.

What -does- irk me a little is what was mentioned earlier about someone playing a job since the dawn of time losing lots over and over again to people who just keep leveling jobs and then never playing them. I can't count the number of people who have RDM leveled that I've never once seen come to Dynamis helping out with CC on their RDM. It's probably 5-6 per run....ok I guess I can count. I know it's been discussed, but myself personally feel that issue is bigger than the points right now. Probably selfish, but honestly I'm on the short side of the stick on both issues and feel the point tiers are a much lesser problem.

Edit: Also I like the idea of 100's costing the same as AF2 for the zone in theory, but the problem there really becomes motivation for people to show up to say, Xarc farms, and having absolutely nothing to get out of it. This isn't SOAP, we're not going to be able to count on people just showing because they "should" to be dedicated, this is an open invite LS as far as I can tell, and making it so people under 16 points wouldn't have a prayer of lotting anything at all would really kill our attendance I think. Maybe put a cap on how high 100's could go? Maybe 8 points for northlands in general and 4 for cities?
 
alienmonkey said:
On a side note I'd like to actually find out why people have 30+ pts in that list I posted in the first place. I know I have 30+ just cause I ran out of stuff to lot on beside 100's and probably won't have anything to lot on for a long time given what i want to level up. I myself have 2 options at this point. Either continue gathering points and go to dynamis or just stop coming period.
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In my case, it is a combination of factors. Part had to do with how (in)frequently certain pieces would drop, how much competition there was for a piece, and how frequently we visit certain zones. For instance, I won my first piece of AF on my 7th Dynamis run (whm legs, only had whm at 75). It was over 70 runs later that I finally won my 2nd wearable piece (had picked up 2 bard pieces at the 50+ level and 1 free lotted mnk piece). In over a year's worth of beaucedine runs with DX, I went 0/8 on the whm body piece before finally winning the 9th.

Partly it's due to enjoying dynamis (most of the time ^_^;; ) and attending most times I could. Points just gradually accumulated. I don't know how many runs I've done since we went to the point system, but I've done 160 runs total. When there's a lot of competition, points just naturally add up over time.

I'm only missing 2 pieces of armor now, the bard legs and smn doublet. I have plenty of points for them, but I keep coming to non-northlands zones because I enjoy the runs and because I may eventually need extra points for CoP dynamis items (though we really don't do CoP zones often enough).
 
If I understand what you are trying to say Araius, then someone not coming to dynamis as a certain job and having it lvled or never playing it I don't think should come into play really in the lotting discussion. I'm going to use me cause I know my situation best. I have BRD NIN WAR @ 75, but I'm always at dynamis with BRD. Should I not be allowed to lot on NIN or WAR AF2 because of that I think not. Hell, Garret has asked like 2-3x if anyone could go NIN to kite xarca NM's and stuff. I've said like half the time I can and he swear he like laughs at me and then says in the LS someone who isn't a BRD...., ect. I don't think I should be penalized from lotting on NIN/WAR/whatever just because I come as BRD because there are so few BRDs and I'm laughed at when saying I can change.

This discussion has filled 98% of my boring work day. Thank you.
 
Varda is kinda right there's really only 1 CoP zone scheduled once a month for the most part. Maybe think about raising the cost for -1AF2 and waist/back to xarca points? They seem to be as rare as Xarca drops most of the time and will bleed out a couple extra points here and there, but at the same time you can also talk it down like you do xarcabard.
 
Yeah I shouldn't have used what people bring to Dynamis as an example. I guess I just wish people would not lot AF for jobs they seldom play, but since the drop rate is so low on any particular AF, people just take whatever they can get. I know the idea of declaring a job has been shot down before but what about declaring 2 or 3? I guess maybe I'm just bitter.
 
I agree that raising the cost of 100's to 6 points across the board is a good idea.

I think Glacier AF2 should be raised to 16 points. It's at least as rare as Xarc AF2, and there's some very high-demand pieces (koga chainmail, etc)

CoP belts/capes could stand to be raised to 16 points as well. Some of the belts/capes have never even dropped for dx afaik, and I think the demand is high for some pieces (cleric's belt for example.)

I don't like the idea of a 50 point tier, for reasons that have already been stated, so I'll just restate them briefly.
1) It really doesn't matter how rarely it is utilized, prospective members will see "50 points" and freak out.
2) It also goes against the stated purpose of the point system, which was to establish a minimum level of effort required to lot, while providing a level playing field for everyone else.
3) For certain extremely rare drops, it's entirely possible that they will always be lotted at the 50 point tier, locking out everyone else.
4) Why change the rules for the people with 50+ pts, they are obviously ok with the current system or they wouldn't still be here ;) (half-joking/half-serious with that one)
 
Araius said:
I know the idea of declaring a job has been shot down before but what about declaring 2 or 3? I guess maybe I'm just bitter.
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Then you have people basically putting the hardest 3 job drops to get into comment and then when some mediocre drop goes to 1+ 0pts because they don't have it comment will complain cause they couldn't lot at 60+, ect and can wear it where as some lvl 5 dude won it. I just see this issue arising again with only commenting 2-3 jobs.

Hex said:
I think Glacier AF2 should be raised to 16 points. It's at least as rare as Xarc AF2, and there's some very high-demand pieces (koga chainmail, etc)
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I can agree with this on Glacier.
 
What about

AF2+1 - 8 points
JSE Belts/Capes - 16 points
100's - 6 points (all zones)

I don't think Glacier AF2 truly needs raising, although if people really feel it should be priced higher maybe 12 points?
 
ow... my ears are burning.

I'm honestly not sure how I have so many points. I've spent about 38-40 points altogether too. lol. Granted, I only have one job so that is a major part of it. Once whm gets to lotting levels I'm sure my total will drop a bit.

Sure, I only have Xarc and Bubu/Qufim items left but I don't plan to stop going any time soon, even if by some miracle I get a mantle and my af helm and belt. Heck, which the current point tiers, that would knock out 44 of my points. >.> Then again, I'm weird. I like the adventure and community of DX and would go if I had nothing let to lot.


I don't care about a 50 point tier really because I would never use it. I have enough left to lot that I can't justify killing my total.

I can see the benefit of raising 100s to 6 points. With 0 tiers for AF there are plenty of opportunities for new members to lot AF so a lower tier on bills doesn't seem as beneficial. While I like that I can win a 100 and recover my points the next week, it really doesn't have any impact on the points long term.

Overall, I think our system is great the way it is. It would be nice to see some kind of main job declaration in regards to lotting, but that would be as restrictive as it would be beneficial. Sorry, moment of selfishness there. I'm better now. lol

alienmonkey said:
If I understand what you are trying to say Araius, then someone not coming to dynamis as a certain job and having it lvled or never playing it I don't think should come into play really in the lotting discussion. I'm going to use me cause I know my situation best. I have BRD NIN WAR @ 75, but I'm always at dynamis with BRD. Should I not be allowed to lot on NIN or WAR AF2 because of that I think not. Hell, Garret has asked like 2-3x if anyone could go NIN to kite xarca NM's and stuff. I've said like half the time I can and he swear he like laughs at me and then says in the LS someone who isn't a BRD...., ect. I don't think I should be penalized from lotting on NIN/WAR/whatever just because I come as BRD because there are so few BRDs and I'm laughed at when saying I can change.
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I completely agree. There is no reason to penalize people with multiple jobs. At the same time, I'd be lying if I said it didn't sting a little bit to lose that last piece of AF to someone who almost never uses the job or doesn't really even know what it is.
 
Garret said:
What about

AF2+1 - 8 points
JSE Belts/Capes - 16 points
100's - 6 points (all zones)

I don't think Glacier AF2 truly needs raising, although if people really feel it should be priced higher maybe 12 points?
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so put it up for vote?
 
At the risk of the derailing the thread further...I might have been misunderstood about the declaring jobs thing. I just meant you'd declare 2 or 3 AF to lot (that you're high enough for of course) for one run, you wouldn't be locked in for every run or anything.

As far as people with multiple jobs being "penalized" is concerned, I think the way we have it now gives them such an advantage, it's only fair to those of us who only have 1 or 2 jobs to limit them to having the same chance to win AF2 as everyone else. Currently someone who has 6 jobs at 75 has 6 times the chance of someone like me who has 2 jobs at 75, but only 1 of which has AF2 currently in the game. That just seems..wrong to me.

As far as the points for Glacier AF2, I'd say 12 points is probably good. Some of the Belts/Capes are good and others aren't, for example the Duelist's Belt isn't remotely close to blowing 16 points imo. But they're so rare that 12 or 16 would probably be more right for them. It's not like every piece of northlands AF is all that great either (sup DRK)

Also I'd vote for 100's to be at least 4 points for sure, if it were put to a vote.
 
Maybe have a set number of "base" jobs, say two per person.

And if a person wants to declare more they have to spend more points on any drop like, 1 pnt more per extra job listed.
 
Fayevalentine said:
Maybe have a set number of "base" jobs, say two per person.

And if a person wants to declare more they have to spend more points on any drop like, 1 pnt more per extra job listed.
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Good in theory, pain in the buttaru to implement. I can see with this plan there would have to be even more information on the points list for someone to keep up with.
 
alienmonkey said:
Varda is kinda right there's really only 1 CoP zone scheduled once a month for the most part. Maybe think about raising the cost for -1AF2 and waist/back to xarca points? They seem to be as rare as Xarca drops most of the time and will bleed out a couple extra points here and there, but at the same time you can also talk it down like you do xarcabard.
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Ack, that's totally not the point I was making about CoP Dynamis. ^_^;;;;

Raising the point cost for those pieces won't make them drop any faster. I suppose it's not a huge deal if their cost goes up, but I don't know that it would affect the point situation much if they did.
 
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