Lotting Priority

In answer to Milaana's questions for a fight like KB it is easily concievable that you need more than 2 Pld if stuff goes awry, not that it should.

But that being said I think the LS has tried not to have a policy of turning anyone away from any camp, if people want to show up to a camp late because of another committment or RL issues or what have you I feel that is their perogative. But lotting priority is a matter of being in the LS and being that main, not a matter of whether you show up on the 1st window or the 5th. The only exception I would put to this is if the LS already had claim on an HNM and you showed up well after claim had been established and no help was needed and then wanted to lot some of these rare items. Contribution really isn't measured on a day by day basis for these. I would assume anybody who is there when it pops unless backup needs to be called in later should all be able to lot whatever drops.
 
if the LS already had claim on an HNM and you showed up well after claim had been established and no help was needed and then wanted to lot some of these rare items
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Not going to happen :D
 
Now I am hearing that there were enough ppl at KB, and people who were not needed showed up after claim to lot. If someone can't bother to show up for a camp until after a mob is claimed and they aren't needed, THEY WILL NOT LOT. Period. That is not fair in the least to those who bothered to show up.
 
Hey guys look on the bright side, imagine what kinda problems this would have caused if KB only dropped 1 M.legs. We should be thankful that we dropped 2 of these for PLDs in our LS (whoever they may be)
 
I'm with Corvac on that. It's all just more incentive to get out and get claims because at 2 M. Legs a KB that's only like 3 more claims we need for all primary Pld to have a pair, all you people wanting whatever else he drops can get your drops after M. Legs if you behave yourselves.
 
/sigh Garret, you missed my point.


for a fight like KB it is easily concievable that you need more than 2 Pld if stuff goes awry
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It wasn't my point to say 'You showed up late, so don't bother showing up.' People in the LS SHOULD show up to help out, but there should a common courtesy here.

lotting priority is a matter of being in the LS and being that main, not a matter of whether you show up on the 1st window or the 5th
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If you showed up late, (or later), you shouldn't have an equal chance as someone who has been there. All this equality does is to make the person who was there feel like a chump. Why should they spend their playtime sitting idle at a camp for several hours when all they gotta do is show up later and have the same priority? This simplistic rule makes a person not want to give the extra effort needed.

Camping is boring, no one wants to do it...everyone wants to kill the HNM, but you can't kill the HNM unless you camp and claim.

This is like if there was a NM drop we both wanted, I spend 1 hour killing PHs, it pops and I need help killing it. You show up, we kill it and you want open lots on it. Is that fair? We both worked on killing the NM, but I invested more game time than you. I would think that anyone in this situation would be courteous and say 'Your camp, Your drop'. HNMs should be like that as well.

It's all just more incentive to get out and get claims because at 2 M. Legs a KB that's only like 3 more claims we need for all primary Pld to have a pair
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This was the 2nd KB we killed in the last 2 months. Once a month isn't because of people not wanting to get it. I think everyone in the LS has the incentive, but you would agree that there is more to it than simple incentive.

In Summation: If you work harder than someone else, you should get more than that person. I really think the lotting priorities should be guidelines, not be-all-end-all rules.

lotting priority is a matter of being in the LS and being that main
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This says nothing of effort. I can be in the LS, be that job, and I can lot. That's all it says. If you don't see the problem with this, then there is nothing else that I can say.
 
Milaana said:
If you showed up late, (or later), you shouldn't have an equal chance as someone who has been there. All this equality does is to make the person who was there feel like a chump. Why should they spend their playtime sitting idle at a camp for several hours when all they gotta do is show up later and have the same priority? This simplistic rule makes a person not want to give the extra effort needed.
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I was going to disagree here.

Milaana said:
This is like if there was a NM drop we both wanted, I spend 1 hour killing PHs, it pops and I need help killing it. You show up, we kill it and you want open lots on it. Is that fair? We both worked on killing the NM, but I invested more game time than you. I would think that anyone in this situation would be courteous and say 'Your camp, Your drop'. HNMs should be like that as well.
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And then I saw this. Never put it in that perspective, but it's kinda right.

In an ideal world however, there would be no discussion about drops whatsoever, because regardless of whether or not anyone viewed anything as fair or unfair, they would just say to themselves "well if it betters the LS it betters myself. I'll get mine next time". Obviously this is ideal though, people have different goals.

Anyway, point here is just that there will be other times. Can't really change the past, but I think threads like this only serve to create distance between LS members, not unity. If there are concerns about drop distribution, it should be mentioned to a sackholder in /tell. If the sackholder feels a change is warranted, he / she can make the announcement. In the meantime, you have to take the bad with the good. Part of being mature is being able to deal with situations without getting flustered and dramatic about it. Shit just happens sometimes, but enough good will come around to balance it out in the long run.

And let's face it, Ultima is still the best NA linkshell on the server, so you'll get a hell of a lot more items here than you would with some other shell. But nobody's perfect.
 
Sackholder's responsibilities are quite tough. Excluding someone from lotting is not at all easy, in fact it's one of the hardest thing to do in-game. I'm sure the sackholders have been thinking of who should get what and to whom even before King Behemoth dies or any other HNM for that matter.

This happened before as well, and ironically it's on KB too. People who showed up late because they have RL issues to deal with first and people who came to help after claim was made. The people who showed up late after claim never intended to get a cut from whatever dropped from KB but instead they were just there as back-ups(Since it was the first time for an NA LS to kill KB). They practiced common courtesy since *they* know that they did not spend time camping and thus only helping.

(Anecdote Typesdragoon's incident)
(Anecdote Xerlaoth's incident)
(Anecdote first Call-for-Help incident)

I'm sure that Fodder's decision is not something out of the blue or without merit. All Paladin main can lot on the M. Abjuration that dropped off King Behemoth (whoever was in there). Though you have that chance to lot, on your own you should be able to judge whether you will step on somebody else's toes or not. It's up to the individual whether he/she should take that chance to lot vs. said player. Common courtesy dictates that two parties should be able to work it out without stepping on each other's pride.

Part of being mature is being able to deal with situations without getting flustered and dramatic about it. Shit just happens sometimes, but enough good will come around to balance it out in the long run.
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Every one in this LS is treated as mature individuals that can think on their own, take the initiative and be part of the team. You are given that "right to lot", worst case scenario: until you abuse it. Hence, a sackholder can and will sure to supercede your lot.
 
As Fodder stated though, by LS rules, if you show up to a camp after the mob has already been claimed and your help is not needed then you are not entitled to lot on the items.

If you show up previous to the actual spawn to help claim, put in what you can, then by LS rules you are entitled to equal lotting with those previously present.

Comparing the NM camp situation you mentioned does apply to the first example above but for the 2nd one that would be the equivalent of coming to kill maybe 1/2 the amount of PH that were killed by earlier memebers. That is still helping and putting in time and giving people that show up in that situation equal footing is to me an acknowledgement that not everyone can make the camp for the first window, or sometimes even the 2nd or 3rd. But neither do other shells, as time goes on any camp is going to get more crowded as people show up and realize that more help is going to be needed even just for claim.
 
Since nobody will reply after a stunning remark as that, Aluboss, I unofficially close this thread.
 
I agree one hundred percent with garret and aluciont.

Us paladins have to stick together.. or something.. like that.

In a personal example -

I showed up to 5 behemoth camps. No I was not in the main party for either of them.
I worked the next day, and yes, I came home and logged on right away into the FIFTH window, as garret's hypothetical example said. I rushed out there and did my best to help for the claim. It popped in the 6th window and yes i lost the lot on the legs.

Would I, in mil's suggestion, be denied the lot on the legs because I was at work?

That simply doesn't make any sense to me. Not just because it was me, either.

I know Talfus works a lot and I'm sure he falls into the same situation. There are other members who are also in this situation from time to time, I'm sure.

Anyway. The points system sounds completely ridiculous to me.

I like the idea of putting lotting orders on CERTAIN EXTREMELY (EXTREMELY) rare items. The Ridill, The Osode, and really not many others, in my opinion, should be handled this way.

I was also not aware of the one-time job change rule. I'm not sure how I feel about that. If we had members who were jumping around in jobs and exploiting our system, I don't think they would stand another second in Ultima. That's completely and unbelievably horrible, and I don't think any of our members would "Screw" everyone else out of drops like that.
 
The one time job change makes for an interesting predicament for those people with more than 2 jobs at 75. After they get everything for those jobs, there will be nothing left for them to achieve. If someone were exploiting the system, seems like they'd get the boot simply for exploiting the system.
 
They could still get items for their secondary jobs Kalia. Not being a primary doesn't exclude you from drops, it only gives those who have that job as their primary priority in lotting that item. It would simply put them near the bottom of the pecking order for their other 75 jobs.

If someone has recieved every item they can concievably get in the LS for 2 jobs they have at 75 that's a pretty impressive feat, and more items are added periodically. Some jobs are obviously more difficult to obtain 'all' your LS sponsored items for but *shruggles*
 
Fodder stated it in this thread somewhere, but I'm way too lazy to go dredging through all these pages to find it.
 
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