Regardin Tiamat
- Thread starter Koul
- Start date
They have a smn using AA to keep the mages from taking AoE damage. And then they don't get drawn in either.
lostsoul
New Member
AoE damage wipes shadows/blink so... lol. Maybe you mean SS?
Fayevalentine
Bebop Passenger
thats interesting, having the two plds cure4 eachother for mad hate
I think in this situation Chivalry would be delicious... mabye even put on +MP gear for PLD since he doesn't do too many high-end spike shit lol
then whilst he was in the air the WHMs take a break and the two PLDs punch cure 3's and 4's on each other... honestly we can kill tiamat just fine but some of the stuff they did I think we should try :3
then whilst he was in the air the WHMs take a break and the two PLDs punch cure 3's and 4's on each other... honestly we can kill tiamat just fine but some of the stuff they did I think we should try :3
Yeah, same thing haha.
Yeah, I always cure the other paladin. It's a really good strategy in Ouryu. Also, Cover generates some hate too, the Paladins can just throw out random covers at each other. They have a really solid strategy for him, and I think there's a lot we could adopt.
haha.Yeah, I always cure the other paladin. It's a really good strategy in Ouryu. Also, Cover generates some hate too, the Paladins can just throw out random covers at each other. They have a really solid strategy for him, and I think there's a lot we could adopt.
sarahlynn
Bootylicious Mistress of the Night
Wiz does not use dual PLD/NINs to tank it. They use 1 PLD/NIN to main tank it, and an additional PLD/WAR as backup for Horrid Roar or PLD/NIN death. PLD/WAR does very little actual tanking, they simply maintain themselves high in the hate queue (ideally 2nd obviously). In the case of a horrid roar, the PLD/NIN spams JA line, etc and regains hate relatively quickly. I'm not sure what they do if they PLD/NIN dies, as the only times I've seen it are at 1-2% and they just nuke it dead at that point.
Occasionally they'll spice it up with a SAM to SC with the THF, but that's basically it, barring some minor variations for specific NMs.
It may seem like I'm being facetious, but this is really how they work things. Look at their setup at any camp, it very closely approaches this. I dunno, it's efficient and very effective, but it seems like people without BLM leveled would be bored much of the time.
If you guys only meant trying PLD/NIN, then I guess I'm not opposed, just make sure the PLDs show up prepared
Yes, Wiz has 1 RDM/DRK responsible for stunning Firaga 3, other people presumably have some sort of stun order, but are stunning landing, PLD getting hit, etc.
I dun remember if you were there for our super late night Tiamat with 19, but our adds were minimal, as they should be at any Tiamat fight. Mages positioned properly do not aggro elementals, nor do corses aggro unless the tanks get pushed into yellow HP at an unfortunate time.
I was actually thinking about this and I think I figured it out. Their BLMs do basically nothing but Stun and nuke, then rest til they're full and repeat. Whereas our BLMs tend to cure/status cure, etc. While helpful and indeed lifesaving at times, it puts them notably higher on the hate queue than they would be otherwise. Dumping your entire MP pool for, at best, 50% damage, doesn't build hate as fast as one might think, especially with experienced PLDs with every imaginable piece of gear tanking.
You're right, I'm pretty sure Paulina isn't using Fire resist gear, but he/she is using -magic% gear (and a defending ring <_<) which is why there's almost no variation in the damage being taken. While this isn't nearly as effective at preventing damage as NINs or WARs with 300+ fire resist, this seems like an optimal amount of damage for a PLD to be taking, since they can cure themselves quite effectively for hate.
I know the last couple of times, Paulina has used this very effectively, often recovering 280ish MP.
Here's Wiz's basic strategy for any HNM: PT 1: Brys, some other PLD, some support PT2: BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM PT3: BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM THF
Occasionally they'll spice it up with a SAM to SC with the THF, but that's basically it, barring some minor variations for specific NMs.
It may seem like I'm being facetious, but this is really how they work things. Look at their setup at any camp, it very closely approaches this. I dunno, it's efficient and very effective, but it seems like people without BLM leveled would be bored much of the time.
If you guys only meant trying PLD/NIN, then I guess I'm not opposed, just make sure the PLDs show up prepared
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sarahlynn
Bootylicious Mistress of the Night
Well the PLD/WAR isn't trying to take hate, just trying to stay high in the hate queue, so when the PLD/NIN gets roared/dies, he can get hate until things stabilize, so it's doubtful he was using voke.
We've tried pld/nins before.. they just get 1-2 shotted at low HP ;x
Whereas NIN can keep shadows up indefinitely as long as Tia is elegy'd.
I'm almost finished leveling PLD finally, personally I will never take it to a Tiamat fight for obvious reasons.
The most I've died fighting Tia as NIN was twice in a single fight. Usually die only once. Easy to screw up when fighting a stupid dragon for hours on end lol. Double attack with shadows down usually does it.
Our 19 person Tiamat fight was amazingly efficient and fast(considering).
People tend to focus more when they know that if we screw up, we're done for. Our fights lately have been more on the sloppy side.. probably because we have so many usually that's wiping isn't really foreseeable. We get overconfident because we've killed it so many times, but really, Tiamat isn't easy and we can wipe as easily as any other ls. Except rare/ex... that's just comedy relief.
Anyway, our strat works and works well. No reason to fix it. We kill slowly because a lot of our dmg usually comes from SMNs, however, we haven't had many of those lately lol. 1-2 tops ;x
Whereas NIN can keep shadows up indefinitely as long as Tia is elegy'd.
I'm almost finished leveling PLD finally, personally I will never take it to a Tiamat fight for obvious reasons.
The most I've died fighting Tia as NIN was twice in a single fight. Usually die only once. Easy to screw up when fighting a stupid dragon for hours on end lol. Double attack with shadows down usually does it.
Our 19 person Tiamat fight was amazingly efficient and fast(considering).
People tend to focus more when they know that if we screw up, we're done for. Our fights lately have been more on the sloppy side.. probably because we have so many usually that's wiping isn't really foreseeable. We get overconfident because we've killed it so many times, but really, Tiamat isn't easy and we can wipe as easily as any other ls. Except rare/ex... that's just comedy relief.
Anyway, our strat works and works well. No reason to fix it. We kill slowly because a lot of our dmg usually comes from SMNs, however, we haven't had many of those lately lol. 1-2 tops ;x
Our strategy does work, obviously. I don't know if I'd say it works well. Hard to say we're doing something well when other people can do it with half the people in half the time. Instead of saying that the reason we shouldn't use PLD/NINs is because they get 1-2 shotted at low HP, we should be asking how Wizardry avoided having their paladins get 1-2 shotted at low HP. Clearly it's possible to consistently avoid the situation you described.
Aelfinn
Moose
to add to what kalia said, one of the things that holds us back sometimes is the resistance to try new strategies... while some events are not the time nor place for testing new things,... why not try a pld/nin pld/war setup next tiamat... have a nin or war/nin available to hop in if things go badly. I dont think i'd suggest this when fighting with say... 16 ppl, but next time we have claim and an abundance of folks... why not eh?
but like kalia said, obviously it can be done and done well.
but like kalia said, obviously it can be done and done well.
Aelfinn
Moose
the idea that has been posed here is a more stable hate-tank system so blms can go a little more crazy on tiamat fights.
would be interesting to see if a pld/nin & pld/war tank setup would allow for more free-nuking (jasmin-ing keke) without getting drawn-in & eaten (jasmin-ing keke again)
not saying the current fight setup is broke, or that its wrong... would just be interesting to see how it plays out.
would be interesting to see if a pld/nin & pld/war tank setup would allow for more free-nuking (jasmin-ing keke) without getting drawn-in & eaten (jasmin-ing keke again)
not saying the current fight setup is broke, or that its wrong... would just be interesting to see how it plays out.
Well, you misinterpreted what I said. I never said our current strategy is inefficient (although actually I think it is). I said "if it's not working for us efficiently, we're doing something wrong". What I meant was "if the old PLD/NIN strategy didn't work well for us when we tried it, it's because we were doing something wrong". Never said anything about our current strategy.
Anyway, if you look at the two methods as a black box, one leading to 45min-1 hour kills, the other leading to 2-2.5 hour kills, then idk, the first one just seems more efficient. It's nobody's fault, and the reason for the extra efficiency may have nothing whatsoever to do with tanks anyway. I'm just saying, something about what they do allows them to kill Tiamat twice as fast as us with two-thirds of the people, while having solidified hate for 100% of the fight.
Anyway, if you look at the two methods as a black box, one leading to 45min-1 hour kills, the other leading to 2-2.5 hour kills, then idk, the first one just seems more efficient. It's nobody's fault, and the reason for the extra efficiency may have nothing whatsoever to do with tanks anyway. I'm just saying, something about what they do allows them to kill Tiamat twice as fast as us with two-thirds of the people, while having solidified hate for 100% of the fight.