Salvage and us

[Aura]

If someone had an entire set of Abjuration gear they are still expected to attend camps to help other people obtain their sets of Abjuration gear, we don't suddenly say they can now begin lotting a new set since they finished their old one, outside of allowing people a one time job change.

They don't have to pay to go fight Byakko though, with the exception of Silent Oils (and I remember when the LS used to provide those for 1G each).

People are reasoanble expected to help attend Limbus, even though not all those participating have something to gain from it, and lotting in that is based off a main job basis, we do not allow secondary jobs to have priority equal to main jobs on lotting Homam/Nashira, and there is the expectation that people will help one another work on these sets, and this is an event where there is an entry fee.

Limbus is cheap, 50k is easily farmable, 2k assault points isn't.

Sorry, but I feel people should be expected to help out others in the LS when they have received significant help from them. If someone has received an entire set of Salvage gear they have received a large amount of help from the LS. I don't see why the cost of that attendance should matter, everybody has to spend their own time getting AP, and if someone else has spent the same amount of their AP attending as you have & not received their full set then they have effectively gotten screwed over and not received something for their time. Meanwhile someone who has gotten a full set has received immense compensation for their time.

Everyone has to put in equal time to earn the AP to do Salvage as a group, everyone should expect to receive equal benefit for that time. If someone has received their benefits faster I don't see why they should then feel they aren't obligated to help everyone else still see those same benefits.

I don't either, but I'm being practical and not an idealist. Wait until people start getting their Salvage sets and watch how attendance dwindles partly because people are getting burnt out on Salvage after having done it alot, and partly because they dont' want to spend their AP anymore because there's other things to spend it on.

AP may take some amount time to get, but that does not mean people are paying some hefty fee out of their own pocket, you could trio 2k AP in less than 2 hours once a week in any number of assault missions.

2 hours makes it sound so easy, but it doesn't sound so easy anymore when you consider how long it takes to trio 6k assault points, which is closer to a week.

I think if people expect to get themselves a full set of Salvage gear then they should expect to keep spending their own AP to help other people also get their full sets of Salvage gear. It's not like this person hasn't already benefitted IMMENSELY from their Assault Points and didn't receive something for them.

Agreed (as already stated), but I think I've been around long enough to have a good idea about when something is plausible, or just wishful thinking. And this definitely seems like wishful thinking, just based on my own observations. What if it were gil instead of Assault Points? What if people had to pay 200k every time. Would the person still be expected to go?

 

[Garret]

They don't have to pay to go fight Byakko though, with the exception of Silent Oils (and I remember when the LS used to provide those for 1G each). Limbus is cheap, 50k is easily farmable, 2k assault points isn't.

With the economy nowadays farming anything isn't that easy. 2k AP takes X amount of time to acquire, it's not hard and costs nothing but some small amount of food.

I don't either, but I'm being practical and not an idealist. Wait until people start getting their Salvage sets and watch how attendance dwindles partly because people are getting burnt out on Salvage after having done it alot, and partly because they dont' want to spend their AP anymore because there's other things to spend it on.

If people aren't attending at all after receiving an entire Salvage set then I would consider them selfish, because that's what they would be. Nobody is expected to spend every one of their AP on Salvage, if someone wants to attend 1 Salvage a week and then use other AP for items they want then they should feel free to. But I am saying that if someone has received a full set and then is completely bailing on Salvage that that is selfish of them. I think it is perfectly practical to expect LS members to *HELP* at LS events, nobody has ever been expected to attend every event 100% of the time, and I don't expect Salvage would be any different, but people should not have an excuse to be selfish or have their selfishness excused under rules that allow just that.

2 hours makes it sound so easy, but it doesn't sound so easy anymore when you consider how long it takes to trio 6k assault points, which is closer to a week.

I wouldn't expect anyone being forced to attend more than 1 Salvage a week if that is all they wanted to attend, and that only requires a couple of hours of non-event time to earn enough AP for that. I don't see where the 6k AP trio farming comes into that equation at all. If people wanted to do more Salvage's, or if they wanted to earn a lot of AP for other items, then they will find the time to do it. 2k AP takes roughly 3 tags to acquire. If you use your tags daily you get 7 a week, I don't think many people use their tags up that fast, maybe a few in the LS are that hardcore with assault though.

So that would mean that if people expect to get a full Salvage set they would be roughly expected to spend about 2 hours a week and 3 of their weekly assault tags in order to get it?

That doesn't seem like it's asking an inordinate amount of someone, nor the expectation that they would keep investing that time to help others in the LS, beacuse after they have invested enough time in ensuring other people in the LS get their 1st sets completed they would then be able to start lotting items for their 2nd set.

So 2 hours a week and 3 Assault Tags & someone would have 1st tier lotting on one Salvage set & eventually be able to acquire the others if they kept attending? I don't see how that is at all an unfair expectation for an event that every single person in the LS benefits from immensely.

Agreed (as already stated), but I think I've been around long enough to have a good idea about when something is plausible, or just wishful thinking. And this definitely seems like wishful thinking, just based on my own observations. What if it were gil instead of Assault Points? What if people had to pay 200k every time. Would the person still be expected to go?

But it's not 200k gil, it's 2k AP, which is an entirely different thing. You can argue that both take time to acquire, but 2k AP is something anyone in this LS can get with a couple hours of effort on a weekly basis. I disagree that it is wishful thinking, but my reasoning for that is up above.

 

[Aelfinn]

moo

 

[lostsoul]

I don't think you should have to complete 5/5 in order to lot another set... Almost all sets don't have 5/5 great peices and i'd be damned if i have to spend money on shit gear that i won't use.

 

[Garret]

I don't think you should have to complete 5/5 in order to lot another set... Almost all sets don't have 5/5 great peices and i'd be damned if i have to spend money on shit gear that i won't use.

So it's fair to get the good pieces of a set, then go work on the good pieces of another set when other people might not even have had a chance to get good pieces from any set?

I am advocating that people have a main set they are working on, that doesn't mean someone can't lot items from another set. It means they can't lot those items over someone who is working on that set.

Also if you talk to the NPC he himself says you have to pick one set which you are working on, which may imply you need to finish one before starting another.

 

[Aelfinn]

this whole argument seems premature, considering the event has been in existance for 1day.

how bout some trial runs before we develop some sort of rules?

 

[Valgavv]

Yeah I agree.. since we don't know much about how it all works we should probably do trail runs to hammer out the details and discuss what we've observed. Everybody should have an Idea on what set they would like to work on just in case you'll be stuck completing that set. and we should move from there.

 

[Fodder]

Can someone verify with the NPC that you can in fact, only work on one SET or one PIECE at a time?

 

[Fodder]

For now let's lay our concerns and ideas out and hold the discussion of individual points for later.

 

[Aura]

I think we need to actually get a piece before we can know for sure. I do remember him saying "You must choose a set to continue", but that was only to get me to the screen where I could see the stats. Who knows if it's related to actually getting the AF. Shiznax did Salvage yesterday and got at least 1 ingredient, maybe a whole piece of equipment I can't remember. He mgiht know better.

 

[Garret]

I can only verify that he mentions something about choosing a particular set and that he will store one for you, or something along those lines, I am not sure entirely what it means.

But if you talk to him you will see that before even trading in any pieces you are given the option to 'choose' a set. I would imagine that means something, exactly what I am not sure.

 

[lostsoul]

So it's fair to get the good pieces of a set, then go work on the good pieces of another set when other people might not even have had a chance to get good pieces from any set?

I am advocating that people have a main set they are working on, that doesn't mean someone can't lot items from another set. It means they can't lot those items over someone who is working on that set.

Also if you talk to the NPC he himself says you have to pick one set which you are working on, which may imply you need to finish one before starting another.

You want to pay 12+ Mil for a peice of equipment you'll never use/and or sucks?

How is that fair? Not everyone has 12mil laying around to spend on a pos item just so that they can lot something else. That's not fair at all.

 

[joanna]

talk to tarnak we did the run yesterday and learned alot, this thing has been out one day and people are already getting stressed out over something thats supposed to be fun. arien magos and i did the run and learned a great deal. kalia has point about farming the assault. it does take alot longer to save up tags then blow them all on one day which would also mean not everyone will be able to go unless its set up like limbus (for tag reset period ) but w/e its fun thats all i cared bout.

 

[Garret]

You want to pay 12+ Mil for a peice of equipment you'll never use/and or sucks?

How is that fair? Not everyone has 12mil laying around to spend on a pos item just so that they can lot something else. That's not fair at all.

I'm completely confused at what you are talking about here. If you don't want to upgrade a piece in a set, don't. I am saying that people should have a primary set as their main Salvage lot, and that they have priority to lot that set over someone who is not main for it.

How would you feel if you had not won a single piece of the Ares set after months of doing Salvage and someone with a full Usukuran(sp?) set outlotted you on an Ares piece? Situations like that will end up happening if people aren't on a priority for a particular set.

Each set has some pieces which are going to be amazing, and others that maybe aren't as impressive that people won't want to spend their gil on the synth items for, however each set also contains pieces that are downright amazing, enough so that my point is based on the fact that *EVERY* job benefits greatly from any given set.

 

[lostsoul]

How are you confused? You're the one that said that people have to pick a set and complete it before being able to make another set their "main" which ultimaly screws people over because if someone doesn't have the gil nor want the peice that they need to complete the set, then they are screwed forever.

How is that fair? It isn't.

 

[Aelfinn]

bla bla bla bla... hey here's a novel idea... lets see how the drops are first?

 

[Garret]

How are you confused? You're the one that said that people have to pick a set and complete it before being able to make another set their "main" which ultimaly screws people over because if someone doesn't have the gil nor want the peice that they need to complete the set, then they are screwed forever.

How is that fair? It isn't.

That's not what I was advocating. I was stating that people should have a single set declared as their main, which they lot for normally, and that if they want to lot a different set they could only do so if people with that set as their main did not need/want whatever dropped.

I don't think people should get to switch their main set, if someone isn't content with having one of those amazing sets as their lotting priority and be patient to wait on pieces they may want from other sets until those mains have received them then I must severely misunderstanding the point of being in an LS where everyone is supposed to be getting ahead.

 

[lostsoul]

Honestly, we're trying to make something seem fair that isn't nor ever will be. Blame SE for that. It starts from the fact that they made this cost 2k AP and not IS. Not everyone can't get 2k assault points from a 3 person assault nor will people always be able to find groups to even do the assaults.

The fact that this salvage has a retarded cost to begin with makes it unfair. If SE did infact make it so that you can only work on one set of gear at a time, then SE screwed us. I just can't see people being required to work on only one set at a time.

I think this should maybe work more like dynamis. If you have the job, you are able to put it in your comment and if it drops, anyone who deicded to lot that set of gear, may do so.

Honestly, we're trying to make some fair that isn't, which is impossible.

And garret i don't think PLD benfits "Greatly" from Ares's set, what would they even use it for?

 

[Aura]

bla bla bla bla... hey here's a novel idea... lets see how the drops are first?

ABSOTOOTLY NOT GAYELFINN VE MUST DECIDE NOW!

Anyway I think what Lostsoul was saying si that if you follow the method that a person has primary lotting on a per-set basis, and you can't change your set until you complete it, then with the insanely jacked prices of the crafting materials used for the equipment, people will be forced to spend millions of gil to complete a set even if some of the pieces in the set are junk

 

[Fodder]

As I stated previously, please express your ideas/concerns about how we should do Salvage as an LS. This does not include arguing about other people's points. There will be ample opportunity to weigh various ideas at a later time.