Salvage and us

F

Fodder

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Ultima Legacy
How shall we handle Salvage as an LS?

Do we make this an event we do every X days, certain days, etc., etc.?
How do we determine which set people work on? Main job, pick one, etc?
Does partipication factor in as it does in Limbus?
Do we do this LS only or do this like we do Dynamis?
Is this going to be a free for all or will we be able to work together to help people complete pieces. (Say Coice has 2 of the 3 rng head items, and 3rd piece drops, everyone lot or have just Coice lot?)
I'm sure you have more questions, ask them!

Assumptions:
1. Many pieces of salvage gear are the best in the game for many jobs.
2. Everyone will likely want every piece they can use for every job.
3. Everyone has to pay 2k AS to get in the door.
 
My vote goes for:

- Participation isn't a factor, since there is no Mega Boss.
- Pick any set, you can only lot items for that set until it's complete, no exceptions.
- Linkshell only unless we can't gather enough people
- Once or twice a week, starting tonight.
- All pieces are equal lot among those working on the same set (just like Black Belt items are now).
 
i'd say lets do a few test runs... drops via main job lots... no idea how rare the drops are. or how few people you can effectively do these with. Whether there is some substaintial reward for killing the boss @ end or not? after some of these things are known we would be able to make better decisions on how drops should be handled.
 
Kalia said:
My vote goes for:

- Participation isn't a factor, since there is no Mega Boss.
- Pick any set, you can only lot items for that set until it's complete, no exceptions.
- Linkshell only unless we can't gather enough people
- Once or twice a week, starting tonight.
- All pieces are equal lot among those working on the same set (just like Black Belt items are now).
Click to expand...


Starting tonight will be a problem.. Proto-Ultima and KS99 Turtle today. I have no objection to the other rules.
 
I think this should be performed similar to Limbus, in that we should try to do it within the LS, but if we aren't full then people should get friends to attend.

I think much of the gear here is probably hands down some of the best equipment in the entire game for the jobs which can wear it, and that we should make this a pretty standard event to do, I could easily see this being an excellent Saturday event, and maybe we could try for twice a week? That obviously fills our schedule up *A LOT* so maybe make it a standard event once a week, and go from there?

Regarding lotting, I think the gear in question is so good for all jobs that it should be equal lotting based on set, I don't think each piece should be prioritized.

One thing to consider, as I understand things from talking to the NPC, you can only have one set you are working on, I don't know if this means you must finish one before moving on to another, or if you can only ever obtain one particular set, or what the deal is. The question I would say is whether people should be required to pick a set based on their main job, or whether they should pick a set they plan to work on, regardless of their main. I do think people should only be allowed to work on one set, i.e. if you want Ares then that's the set you are working towards in the LS, you should have no rights to lot items from another set regardless of what jobs you may have levelled unless literally *nobody* needs what drops in that other set.

I am inclined to say people should be able to pick which set they are going to work on.

Using the example you gave Fodder, I think the pieces should simply be lottable by those working on the set, people shouldn't be required to pass if someone else happens to be close to a full set, although it might be a nice common courtesy thing to do. The reason I wouldn't require it is that depending on the rarity of the pieces involved being required to pass to someone could mean the person passing may not even have a chance at that item again for a long time and one could argue that the person who is 2/3 on pieces for a particular piece has already been receiving items from Salvage and to give them an edge on finishing their piece it sets other people back on their own progress.

I think important factors to put in place.

1) Equal lotting for all jobs within a set.
2) One person, one Salvage set.
 
Garret said:
2) One person, one Salvage set.
Click to expand...

I think people should be able to start a second set after they finish the first set. However, I don't think that should be allowed until they are 5/5 on the first set.
 
Kalia said:
I think people should be able to start a second set after they finish the first set. However, I don't think that should be allowed until they are 5/5 on the first set.
Click to expand...

I could kinda see some tension between doin that though, let's say I win 5/5 and start on another set that other kids have been workin on the entire time and cast lots and start winnin pieces needed for it... I hope consideration would overwhelm people but it hasn't in past events hehe

mabye if you get a full set done (like crazy fast umahgudzz lotbot done) you should skip a few runs or something to let some others catch up to you
 
I guess so, but it's kinda like Dynamis in that respect IMO. Just because you're 5/5 on a set of AF2 doesn't mean you can't go lot other AF2 the next time. Especially since Salvage is just a 1 time thing, just like Dynamis. You go in, get items, get out.

Plus, assuming equal attendance and law of averages, by the time you're 5/5 on a set everyone else will either be 5/5 as well, or really close. The only problem I see with not allowing people to lot additional sets after they complete one is that basically makes Salvage useless for people after they complete one set, which tends to lower attendance.

Actually, If we didn't allow people to get additional sets, I'd actually change what I said earlier and say that they should be able to work on only one PIECE at a time instead of one SET.
 
well whatever the case...

let's do some assualts! :X

I get home at 4:30EST !!!
 
I simply don't think it would be fair if someone working on their 2nd set could be outlotting people in the LS still working on their 1st.

If we are doing this 90-100% within the LS then the motivation to keep attending, even after finishing an entire set, should be that it's the LS which helped you get that entire set & you owe it to other people for them to finish their 1st sets as well.

I don't see why people who have finished an entire set of what are some of the best armor pieces in the entire game should be upset at having to wait for other people on their first set to get the items before they can start lotting them as a 2nd set. That would seem pretty unfair to me.

The law of averages works out because of extremes, most people would be finishing their sets in 'about' the same amount of runs, other people would finish them very fast because they were getting good lots, other people would be finishing them slowly because of bad lots, and for the people finishing them slowly under what you mention their problem would be compounded by the pool of people they were lotting against not decreasing with time because more people would come in & begin lotting against them. The purpose behind implementing the rules should be to help protect people in that latter case.

I don't see why attendance should be an issue for an LS event like this, I wouldn't even compare it to Dynamis in that regard. This event offers a good amount of amazing gear for every job, as near as I can tell, Dynamis in that regard is not neccesarily as balanced, some jobs receive almost nothing of value in Dynamis. I don't understand why most in the LS would not view this as a chance to get amazing gear for their job, help other people in the LS get amazing gear for their jobs, and then when other people have pimped out their main jobs people would have a chance to equip their secondary jobs.
 
For one thing it costs 2,000 Assault Points every single time you want to go. Those 2,000 Assault Points could be going to Pahluwan, Yigit, or whatever that other gear set is. So after a person finishes a set not only do they have to put themselves into the negative as far as gaining other items they want is concerned, they also have no chance of lotting anything in Salvage. Seems messed up to me. Imagine if you told people they had to pay 500k for Limbus instead of 50k, the only people who would ever attend from that point on are people who needed the gear from that particular limbus route, and then it would never happen because there would never be enough people.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to say that it should be on a per-piece basis. Pick a piece, you can lot items for that piece until it's complete, then you can pick any other piece (even from another set).
 
I am in need of assaults as well...but I am currently on the tier 2 set. I am willing to do tier 1 or tier 2 with anyone who needs them so I can advance my rank. Let me know if you need a bst or blm.

In response to Kalia's post above mine:
I am almost 100% certain that you can not pick a piece from one set and then pick any other piece from another set. The NPC specifically states that he can only work on one set at a time. The only question will be whether you are even allowed to start a second set after finishing the first.

Ez
 
also something that I found out if people didn't know was...

you don't have to progress through assualts to go through the aht urhgan missions
 
Kalia, my point is that if you have spent X amount of Assault Points to get a complete set and other people in the LS have also spent X amount of Assault Points and not completed a set that you owe it to them to keep helping out.

Otherwise that is the same as saying, "Hey sorry that you guys didn't lot as well as me, but now I'm not going to attend that event anymore unless I can start lotting against other people on their sets they haven't finished yet."

Everybody has to spend Assault Points to do this, and everybody gets good gear, people should be expected to participate with the understanding that everyone benefits, and if someone happens to benefit faster then by not continuing to help they are leaving their LS mates in the lurch.

I don't find that fair or reasonable at all. If someone has managed to finish an entire set of what is *AMAZING* gear they should be happy to have received so much & be willing to keep helping so that other people can also have that *AMAZING* gear and realize that once other people have finished their sets that they can then have a chance to begin working on another one.
 
Garret said:
I don't find that fair or reasonable at all. If someone has managed to finish an entire set of what is *AMAZING* gear they should be happy to have received so much & be willing to keep helping so that other people can also have that *AMAZING* gear and realize that once other people have finished their sets that they can then have a chance to begin working on another one.
Click to expand...

So do you think that people should be expected to spend 2,000 Assault Points on something when they'd much rather spend those 2,000 Assault Points on Yigit or Pahluwan gear? "Sorry, I know how much you want that other piece of equipment, and even though they're you're assault points, it's highly recommended you spend them on what I tell you to spend them on." Doesn't that sound a little silly? It might be different if there was no AP requirement. So you say "well they aren't forced to come", and then you end up with no attendance after people start getting their sets. Not to mention that the Nyzul Isle assaults haven't even been added yet, and when they do that's an entirely new list of gear to spend your Assault Points on. Limbus is different because the entry fee is gil, and it's a hell of a lot quicker to earn 50,000 gil than it is to earn 2k assault points. "You can earn 2k Assault points in 2 hours". Yet it takes 3 days to earn 4k Assault points, and 6 days to earn 6k assault points due to the 1-day waiting period.

I'm trying to be practical. What you suggest is awesome in theory. People keep doing the same repetitive Assaults every 3 days to keep their Assault Points up so they can help other people get the sets. Without a second thought they continue to pump their 2k assault points into Salvage once or twice a week, helping out other people with their sets, knowing that their Salvage/Assault ratio keeps them effectively at 0 net Assault Points over time. But is this really gonna happen? I just don't think it will. People will get lazy, and not do those Assaults. Then Salvage time comes around and they don't have their points. So it's postponed a few days, then it comes around again and someone else spent his points on a piece of Assault Point gear. Or they did Salvage with a pickup group. Or they were just lazy and didn't do it again.

In any situation, whether it be Limbus AF upgrade materials, Dynamis AF2, or Salvage pieces, if people are paying a hefty entrance fee they should have some sort of lotting privileges on something.

So I think lotting should be per-piece (i.e. finish 1 piece then you can start any other piece), as long as you can wear it.
 
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If someone had an entire set of Abjuration gear they are still expected to attend camps to help other people obtain their sets of Abjuration gear, we don't suddenly say they can now begin lotting a new set since they finished their old one, outside of allowing people a one time job change.

People are reasoanble expected to help attend Limbus, even though not all those participating have something to gain from it, and lotting in that is based off a main job basis, we do not allow secondary jobs to have priority equal to main jobs on lotting Homam/Nashira, and there is the expectation that people will help one another work on these sets, and this is an event where there is an entry fee.

There is not an entry fee in Dynamis, except in CoP zones, every other run we do is sponsored by someone with the expectation that the sponsor is receiving currency & using it to upgrade.

Sorry, but I feel people should be expected to help out others in the LS when they have received significant help from them. If someone has received an entire set of Salvage gear they have received a large amount of help from the LS. I don't see why the cost of that attendance should matter, everybody has to spend their own time getting AP, and if someone else has spent the same amount of their AP attending as you have & not received their full set then they have effectively gotten screwed over and not received something for their time. Meanwhile someone who has gotten a full set has received immense compensation for their time.

Everyone has to put in equal time to earn the AP to do Salvage as a group, everyone should expect to receive equal benefit for that time. If someone has received their benefits faster I don't see why they should then feel they aren't obligated to help everyone else still see those same benefits.

AP may take some amount time to get, but that does not mean people are paying some hefty fee out of their own pocket, you could trio 2k AP in less than 2 hours once a week in any number of assault missions. I don't see how expecting LS members to put in a couple hours a week at assault so that they can participate in an LS event is expecting a lot, nor how rewarding them with 1 Salvage eventually for that time is not a fair reward for that continued expectation of them spending their AP.

What is the point of being in the LS if people don't expect to need to spend some of their time in events where they may no longer see as large a benefit, and if they have already received their benefit from that event then why should they expect to get more when other people have yet to see any?

Kalia said:
So do you think that people should be expected to spend 2,000 Assault Points on something when they'd much rather spend those 2,000 Assault Points on Yigit or Pahluwan gear?
Click to expand...

I think if people expect to get themselves a full set of Salvage gear then they should expect to keep spending their own AP to help other people also get their full sets of Salvage gear. It's not like this person hasn't already benefitted IMMENSELY from their Assault Points and didn't receive something for them. Sorry but in my opinion bailing out on an event just because you already received what you wanted from it so that you can spend your time earning other gear you want instead of helping other people out is being unfair & selfish.
 
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