Lotting method proposal

Redd

Redd

Servant of Ultima
Banned Account
Okay, I've been thinking that the lotting rules should be tweaked a little and made into a point system. Why? The reason will be stated later. For now, I'd like to explain how it works.

It's pretty simple, the point system works by people accumulating points simply by attending. If a person does not attend a run, that person of course gets no point for the run. However, that person's points aren't decreased because of a missed run.

When Omega/Ultima is killed, and drops are found, the person with the highest points chooses a part and lots it uncontested because they have the highest points. When the person wins the part, that person's points are reset to zero irrespective of how many points that person may have accumulated.

The person with the second highest points then gets to choose a different part, uncontested, that had dropped and said person's points are reset to zero and so on. The cycles continues as points are accumulated and reset upon winning an armor piece.

Additionally, a person may choose to pass and retain their points. A person may choose to pass to accumulate point for a rare piece of armor. For instance, if I really wanted the Homam corazza, I can keep on passing and accumulate points until I have the highest points. When corazza drops, and if I have the highest points, I can lot it uncontested.

Now, why should we use this system? The point of the system is to gradually keep armor acquasition among members at an equal rate. This system is meant to prevent the instance where one person will obtain 3+ parts, while the majority of the members have 0-1 armor. Since, points are lost and accumulated, and gear acquisition isn't dictated by a person's lotting luck or lack thereof, an even distrubition of armor parts gained among members will be greatly encouraged.

The main reason why I bring this up is because of a similar instance in Negatron where one person obtained three pieces of armor while a large majority of people simply had 0-1 armor parts. Said person had already won a part of Omega. Down the road, we did two Omegas in a row and this same person ended up winning one piece of Omega from each of the Omegas we fought while many went w/o one single piece of armor in nearly six months or more of doing Limbus (even though split Limbus runs weren't perfected yet). Bear in mind that this person didn't have an attendance record any more outstanding than the majority of the members. Upon this occurrence, many members were fed up. culminating in Negatron disbanding.

Negatron's system was based on job priority and attendance. However, since it was a free for all lot rule, the person with the luckiest lotting streak pretty much claimed most of the armor. As it stands, there is no preventive measure that one person can accumulate 5/5 of either Omega or Ultima, while the majority may have no pieces of armor irrespective of how impressive one's attendance may be.

I dunno if you guys would consider this system, but I hope you do since it encourages a nearly even distribution of armor gained among members.
 
Why make more attendance rules? They only drive people away! And your trying to make it so I have to come to more runs and help people. I don't want to spend that time helping people.











































This seems fair and a good logical thing to do. Although I am happy with our current attendance system. Either way I am just happy limbus is back up and running with some dedicated members.
 
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Point system: See you later.
 
I have no problem with a point system if people want it. As I've said from the start of taking the helm of Ultima Limbus, everything I did from the beginning was to encourage attendance. If people are strongly interested in such a system, I'll keep track of points. Keep in mind that I am not willing to do anything that will decrease our numbers to the point of not being able to do split runs, and I'm not lookin to bring in members outside Ultima to help. If we did transition to a point system, I'd probably get rid of the attendance requirement for lotting af/coins as well, and make each run where you lot coins a small point cost, like 1-2 or something.

Feel free to discuss it here. I've already considered the pros/cons of a point system to a large extent, but would more like to hear what you guys want to see happen, since most of our regular attendees have been very dedicated to the group.
 
Nekio said:
I'd probably get rid of the attendance requirement for lotting af/coins, and make each run where you lot coins a small point cost, like 1-2 or something.
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Or could keep it the same and you don't get a point for going after coins/af. As the main point for points is hom/nash and to keep it fair and even for obtaining hom/nash.
 
I very rarely do Limbus as I'm usually busy on Mondays, and since my Thursdays cleared up and you increased the attendance limit to over 50%, I had no reason to go other than to help when needed; just from my (admittedly selfish) perspective, this point system would make it worthwhile for me to go again, since it would, in time, allow me to get Omega pieces, though at a far more slow rate than people who attend regularly and deserve them more. :3
 
Lexa said:
I very rarely do Limbus as I'm usually busy on Mondays, and since my Thursdays cleared up and you increased the attendance limit to over 50%, I had no reason to go other than to help when needed; just from my (admittedly selfish) perspective, this point system would make it worthwhile for me to go again, since it would, in time, allow me to get Omega pieces, though at a far more slow rate than people who attend regularly and deserve them more. :3
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That's one of the things I like about this system: it has long term memory wherein you are able to get something if you help out. Lets face it, not everyone can make every run. This system serves the purpose of pretty much getting something for the time you put in. Read: getting something for the time you put in. Each of us loses 15k every run we attend. While this may not seem like much money to some, it does sum up to a great deal of money in the course of six months to a year. It should be encouraged that since everyone is paying the same amount to do a run, everyone should get something out of it at a nearly equal rate.

The system will of course tend to give priority reward to those who contribute the most over those with lesser contribution. However, unlike the current system, the new system allows people who can attend less than others the opportunity to get something for the work/gil they put in. Granted that those who do not attend regularly get rewarded at a seemingly painful rate, that slow rate of acquisition is fully justified.

I don't see this system being capable of discouraging people to attend. It is not far fetched that his system might possibly increase the amount of people who join and do runs by virtue of points being stored. This may result in better numbers to effectively and efficiently farm split runs. That's all speculation though; take it with a gain of salt or better yet, some sweet ice cream.
 
I've been doing limbus just as long as everyone else, yet I have no pieces of Hoema'ams or nastyra to show for it. Sure, paying limbus fee's over the years to help ls members get gear is fine, i only have 2 pieces of brd af+1 so i dont do it soley for myself. Thus:

IF I DON'T WIN ANY HOMAM TONIGHT IM HOPPING SERVERS.


But really, I don't care if you put a point system in or whatever. I'm at every run anyway so it wouldn't hurt me at all. And holy shit more people would come if they could get lewts too! GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
 
I'll never be a fan of point systems. It's unenforceable within the confines of the game. I've been burned too many times for my efforts. I stacked up a great deal of points with one dynamis shell only for it to disband the next day. In one particularly awesome case the powers that be decided to just turn off the entire system. All points instantly null and void. It was around that time that I decided I'd never mess with anything like that again.

The lot system has a ton of faults, sure, but I'd rather put stock in something in game over something outside of it if given a choice. The idea that people would steadily get gear is also amazing to me. If 18 (almost certainly more) people are constantly gaining points and only 1-2 special pieces of gear drop from each Ultima / Omega run, then your not saving much time at all in my opinion.

Two people use their points on a piece. That means you have to wait till next cycle to get a chance at what you want. Or, someone outlots you.That also means you have to wait till next cycle to get a chance at what you want. Unless I'm missing a massive point somewhere, I don't much see the difference. There will always be statistical anomalies like Sojourn or whosoever wins a lot every Omega / Ultima. But they end up taking the exact same chance all of us do. If you can't win a lot within however long you've been doing Limbus then I'm sorry, that's just crummy luck.

I also find it very sad how the new Attendance Rules have yet to be implemented and people want to change it already. That sounds like lack of stability to me, and lack of stability leads to me losing all my hard earned points. <--- That is what I would say if this wasn't an Ultima group. Do what you all think is best but a point system means I'll see you guys later for Limbus.
 
Well, the new attendance requirement honestly won't have much at all of an effect on lotting as it is now. Everyone lotting at the Omega tonight has at least a 100% attendance score.

As for stability, tbh I'm not concerned. I'm not going anywhere any time soon, attendance is good, and we're very successful with coins, AF and clears. If we did a point system, I would be managing it, and I already have the spreadsheet drawn up.

As for Redd's argument that we should reward those who come to help evenly, that was the purpose of the 3 coin minimum given to all attendees. Coins are still selling for 5-8k in every bazaar I've seen, which completely covers the cost of entering. If you want to buy your own coins to get a rare/ex item, that's your choice :P

The major con of a point system in Limbo, however, is that gear drops infrequently enough that points will undoubtedly accumulate to huge levels. Look at Nashira, for instance. Most members will save and save and save for the legs, and the rest will probably go free lot. Again, I'm not for or against a point system, but there are pros and cons.
 
Rektify said:
I'll never be a fan of point systems. It's unenforceable within the confines of the game. I've been burned too many times for my efforts. I stacked up a great deal of points with one dynamis shell only for it to disband the next day. In one particularly awesome case the powers that be decided to just turn off the entire system. All points instantly null and void. It was around that time that I decided I'd never mess with anything like that again.

The lot system has a ton of faults, sure, but I'd rather put stock in something in game over something outside of it if given a choice. The idea that people would steadily get gear is also amazing to me. If 18 (almost certainly more) people are constantly gaining points and only 1-2 special pieces of gear drop from each Ultima / Omega run, then your not saving much time at all in my opinion.

Two people use their points on a piece. That means you have to wait till next cycle to get a chance at what you want. Or, someone outlots you.That also means you have to wait till next cycle to get a chance at what you want. Unless I'm missing a massive point somewhere, I don't much see the difference. There will always be statistical anomalies like Sojourn or whosoever wins a lot every Omega / Ultima. But they end up taking the exact same chance all of us do. If you can't win a lot within however long you've been doing Limbus then I'm sorry, that's just crummy luck.

I also find it very sad how the new Attendance Rules have yet to be implemented and people want to change it already. That sounds like lack of stability to me, and lack of stability leads to me losing all my hard earned points. <--- That is what I would say if this wasn't an Ultima group. Do what you all think is best but a point system means I'll see you guys later for Limbus.
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At first, you seem to hate a point system for the very virtue of it being a point system, irrespective how fair the system is to everyone. I am glad you posted your reason for not liking a point system and I respect it.

However, this system gives everyone a chance to get something. You can choose to horde your points until forever and a day, but that doesn't help you. In theory, no one is left behind if you keep using your points as you become the person with highest points. The point reset system ensures that the next person to lot is always a different person: You won't have the same person winning armor over and over when others have nothing. The main focus of this system is to allow everyone to get an uncontested chance at getting armor when their turn gets around.

You don't have to rely on your luck on lotting low against everyone who seem to be incapable of lotting below 999. This system is essentially turn based for getting gear so that something like Soj's case would never occur. In Negatron, I was in the same situation. Et and Nek where there. I had done Limbus with Negatron for over a year and got not one pieceo of gear to show for it. This is the kind of scenario the point of this system tries to prevent.

However, it's not a perfect system. I don't think there is one, but this sure as hell encourges fairness.
 
I'll just mention the same thing I pointed out in regards to the total points system presented for dynamis. There's no flexibility.

Someone mentioned Nashira. Let's say we have 5 people lotting Nashira and all of them want legs. As soon as one person misses a run, for whatever reason, they're 5th on the tier. I understand the virtues of the system but the negatives are there as well.

Yes Redd, you never won Homam and it sucked. However, you always knew you had that chance of winning it.
 
We just have a different definition of fairness and neither of us is completely wrong with it. To me lotting in and of itself is very fair. You lot 0, or you lot 999. Same odds as everyone else. I like what your saying in theory, but you said everyone gets a chance to get something. At it's core that is what's happening right now. Did the people who got those many many pieces in a short amount of time continue to show up?
 
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