Ready or not here they come

Garret

Galkasaur
FC/Active Member
DX rule changes are going to be implemented, likely starting in September.

I will post more information to follow but it will be a point buy system with AF2 from different areas being given a point value. Although this system will at first favor those attending the most runs, which is fair to an extent, it will also be possible for those who do not attend as many runs to 'catch up' so to speak & with a cap on point costs for specific pieces they will not be at a disadvantage but they will also not be able to spend points on as many pieces of AF2 as those who attend often.

I honestly am not sure how well this will play out, but as someone pointed out to me if it completely flops then it can be changed back later. But I hope it works as intended.

More details to follow in the next week.
 
I applaud you as this is a bold step, i think in the right direction. Looking forward to how this turns out. :) :)
 
I know that you normally set the parties up when you do a run. Do you have any specific method you will be using to track points?

I'm thinking of something like using a very simple Excell spreadsheet in order to let people see where they stand, who has which zones cleared, which jobs the players have at 71+. I'm sure when someone signs onto an event, they'd like to see where they stand towards their next AF purchase or who their competition is. I didn't know if you were going to post a list in this section of the forums or make an attachment of some sort that you update/upload.



I've got questions on how the +1 items will fall into this (New Dynamis zones). Are you going to make them a purchased item as well or do you plan on retaining the old method for those (you can lot if you have the base piece the +1 goes to)?

Are Shadow Lord drops still a /random?
Do Attestations require a stage 3 weapon?
Are 100 Notes considered a /random?
Are 100 Notes a Dynamiswide random or is it at the expense of either the amount that run is worth or purchased?

Just throwing out a few questions because when it comes to point systems, the people working towards something like to see an unbiased, fair, and stable system that won't screw them. You've made it work for a very long time now, so I've got no doubt that something can be set in place that will establish a method where the DynamisX regulars feel that the system works.
 
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Wow i really do like this idea as did many from that dynamis night it was discussed. >^_^< I hope it works out well. No more first time lotters :)
 
Let me know if you need help with an Excel spreadsheet. I really dont' mess around when it comes to making awesome Excel spreadsheets for organizing data. Here's the one I use for tracking my farming results, this is the one that led me to the conclusion that TH+n = Drop Rate+n%.

http://hosted.planetether.net/Farming.xls

I've been doing some testing lately with TH4 to see if this result still holds true for the jump from TH3 to TH4.
 
At the moment I am considering a few things.

A general outline of what I have thought up so far is as follows

- 1 point for attendance. Attendance is calculated at the end of the run, if people need to leave early they will still get points but they need to give warning first. If someone leaves without any forewarning they will not be awarded points, barring some emergency.

* I am considering giving a 1/2-1 point bonus to the organizer of a run. While this is currently almost always me I would like to teach other people how to efficiently make parties & go over things. This would take some of the pressure off of me if I do not always need to worry about parties getting made. It is a lot of effort organizing runs, which I realize many people understand, and is not an easy job by any means. Part of my reason for considering this is to encourage a better understanding of how a run works, how it is organized, and have this type of bonus be an incentive towards that understanding. I would appreciate input on this; whether people think it is fair, warranted, and whether they would be interested in learning how to do some of these organizational tasks.

* Ultima also runs a small private LS for the purpose of farming currency. Attendees to this run will also be awarded points towards DX. Running DX is a lot of work and while it serves to benefit everyone I do not want Ultima members at a disadvantage because they choose to attend an event for completing our relics.

- 100 Bills: I think I would like these placed onto the point system but am not sure how many points to assign them. I am leaning towards 2-4 points, but am open to suggestions on these.

- Main City AF2: 4 Points. This number represents 2 weeks of full attendance.

- Glacier AF2: 8 Points. This represents ~ 1 month of full attendance.

- Xarcabard AF2: 16 Points. This represents ~ 2 months of full attendance.

* While this number may seem high some of the AF2 here is the most fiercely competed over AF2 & while this system will at first favor those who attend religiously over time it is perfectly possible for those who do not attend as much to accumulate enough points for this.

- Shadow Ring / Mantle: 20 Points. I think this a reasonable cost for such a rare item. It demonstrates a lot of time put into DX.

- AF2+1: 4 Points, must have AF2. AF2+1 isn't particularly amazing & I don't think it fair to deduct a large amount of points for it.

- Belts/Capes: 8 Points. Some of these are very solid pieces and I think their rarity is comparable to Glacier AF2.

- Crafting Items: Free lot still.

- Sponsoring: Remains the same, sponsor would still get points for the run though.

- People would still be required be able to wear AF2 they wish to lot.

- I do not know if I want to still require lot comments or to allow people to spend points on whatever they want when it drops. I am leaning towards requiring a comment which lists their jobs at 70+. People could still only win 1 item per run, no matter how many points they have.

- There will be no negative points. If nobody can afford an item which drops it will go down in tiers, i.e. for Shadow Ring if nobody has 20 points to spend, it would go to 16, then 8, then 4, then 2, then 0. It will cost that new amount of points. This will also apply to items people do not wish to spend points on. For instance, if Drk AF2 head drops and nobody wants to spend 16 points the price will drop until it is free. People must still have the job high enough lvl to wear the item being reduced, however, if an item is reduced to the 4 point level, people 60+ in that job may lot, and if to the 2 point level, 50+. If an item goes down to 0 points it is free lot.

*While this may seem a bit esoteric at first I think if you read it through it actually makes sense and should be balanced.

I think that covers most, if not all, of the bases. Feel free to offer input or questions concerning any of these points. Some things I would like more input on are:

- 100 Bill lotting/point costs
- AF2+1 point costs
- Bonus Points for Organizing?
- Bonus Points for attendees to attestation runs / animated weapon runs / successful DL clears? Does the added effort to these justify a bonus of some sort?



Edit: Attestations / Fragments will not cost any points but they will only be farmed for people who have a Stage 3+ weapon for Attestations or Stage 4+ weapon for fragments. In the case of attestations if an attempt at them is already being made for someone else then other attendees may request we do additional NM's at that time for them as well, but we will not schedule a run if a few peopel are just on Stage 2 weapons.
 
I would also suggest that those who are having an animated weapon fought for them in a xarc run be required to supply icarus wings/sleeping pots/poison pots for all melee participating. Yeah it'll cost 500k, but if you are upgrading a relic that's a drop in the bucket considering people spend upwards of 500m on them.
 
I think they should be required to supply poison pots & icarus wings. For animated weapons it is very easy to build TP up on Demons beforehand without being in danger. If they want to also supply sleeping potions that should be optional. It actually takes more time to let everyone sleep TP before engaging than it does to slow down kills while people build up TP.
 
* Ultima also runs a small private LS for the purpose of farming currency. Attendees to this run will also be awarded points towards DX. Running DX is a lot of work and while it serves to benefit everyone I do not want Ultima members at a disadvantage because they choose to attend an event for completing our relics.

While I really like the idea of being able to get points toward dx stuff for attending SnakesOnAPlane runs, I don't think that the non-ultima members that attend DX will be as accepting. After all, us going to SnakesOnAPlane runs isn't helping them get anything from DX. I could be wrong though. who the hell knows.

Other than that, I really like the idea of it, I just don't envy the people having to track it haha.
 
I think if we allow Dx members to come with SOAP if say there is no more room in Dx on a run, then it wouldnt be such a bitch to the Non Ultima Dx members....and we can always use the help on SOAP runs aye?

Or maybe limiting the points per run for SOAP to .75 or .50 ?

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And maybe we should appoint a couple people (dx and ultima) to help gar keep track of this? Seems a lot of work for one person.
 
oh ok two questions:

1) Is it going to be the 1 win per run deal? I really dont want to see someone with 20 points get on a sandy run and pwn 4 people out of AF.

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2) And if we are going to be recieving points on SOAP runs will we have to deduct points when someone wins a af2 or 100?

My thoughts on that are if we are recieving points as if we were in Dx, then we should be spending those points on af or 100s that we recieve in those runs.
 
Re: Ready or not here they come: DX rules

Fayevalentine said:
1) Is it going to be the 1 win per run deal? I really dont want to see someone with 20 points get on a sandy run and pwn 4 people out of AF.

My understanding is still one win per run. One 100, one AF, etc.
 
Fayevalentine said:
1) Is it going to be the 1 win per run deal? I really dont want to see someone with 20 points get on a sandy run and pwn 4 people out of AF.

Garret said:
- I do not know if I want to still require lot comments or to allow people to spend points on whatever they want when it drops. I am leaning towards requiring a comment which lists their jobs at 70+. People could still only win 1 item per run, no matter how many points they have.

Fayevalentine said:
2) And if we are going to be recieving points on SOAP runs will we have to deduct points when someone wins a af2 or 100?

This is answered in the LS forums.

Mythlon said:
While I really like the idea of being able to get points toward dx stuff for attending SnakesOnAPlane runs, I don't think that the non-ultima members that attend DX will be as accepting. After all, us going to SnakesOnAPlane runs isn't helping them get anything from DX. I could be wrong though. who the hell knows.

This falls under the {That's too Bad.} category. While those not in Ultima may not entirely like this idea DX is still run through us, and is a lot of effort. I do not want to see Ultima members handicapped through a policy that essentially discludes them. DX offers public attendees a chance at sponsoring to upgrade relic weapons, access to all Dynamis zones, and chances at AF2 they may not otherwise be able to even lot on and it has paid off for many of them. In the end attendance & participation are what will get points & it does not handicap regular attendees outside of a slightly larger point spread among people. In comparison to some Xarcabard runs where there may be 20 people lotting who only attend during a Xarcabard run I do not think it is any more unfair in its implementation.

Perhaps Faye's suggestion that if there is overflow members could ask to attend Soap if they still want to acquire points. I don't run Soap however and it would be up to them to ask permission from Soap's organizer's if they could ever attend runs with them, and that's their decision.
 
Point systems cause herpes

You guys really gonna be able to keep accurate points for 100-200 people that go on DX runs? Seems like it's just complicating something that has been otherwise very simple.

Although not as much lately, I've been attending DX since the first run 2 years ago, the alure for me has always been it's simplicity and consistancy.

However if this is the final word, I'll support whatever you guys choose.
 
In theory it's very simple to keep track of points. I already take notes on who wins what AF2 for our trophy post. When I make parties I also write down everyone's names as I place them in parties. To assign their points would just take 5 minutes before the next run to look over that list.

In terms of points being played out on a run here's how I think a typical lot should go, in theory...

Glacier

/l <everyone> Whm!!!
/l <Garret> 8 Points, lot if you want it.
/l wait 20
/l <Garret 4 Points, lot if you want it.
/l wait 20
/l <Garret> 2 Points, lot if you want it. 60+ can lot.
/l wait 20
/l <Garret> Ok free lot if nobody is going to spend points.

Done.


Edit: While DX's rules are very simple I also feel like there are many loyal attendees, and I include myself in this, who simply never win AF2 & are consistently outlotted by either new attendees or those who rarely come. I want a system where people are able to put in their time & hopefully be rewarded for it. If it really becomes a total flop that doesn't work at all it can be changed back, although I hope it works.
 
Is lv requirement still in effect then? The reason I ask is I havn't had anything to lot in quite some time, so i've been attending on other people accounts to help them out.

I would love to be able to lot AF2 for a future jobs that i'm currently leveling, it would give me a reason to attend on my account again.
 
The level requirement would still be in effect but the system easily allows people to accumulate points if they so desire & then lot for that job once it is high enough level. Also if people can not afford a piece, or do not want to spend the full point value, as the point value decreases the level you can lot for goes lower.
 
He listed that same rule must be able to wear it applies .. you can always hope for the lower level lots but we all know that never happens minus on bst and drk
 
I think the rules should end up playing out that less popular AF2 will end up costing less since people may not be willing to spend points on it, and thus will be easier to pick up for lower lvl jobs without spending lots of points, but that more competitive AF2, like Rdm Hat will likely always cost a high point value & remain competitive but that people saving up for these types of items will not lot smaller lots for a while as they acquire poitns. I can guarentee I would be saving up points for AF2 Body and not bothering to lot smaller items until I had enough points for it and I imagine many people would have similar plans.
 
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