Proposal
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The idea behind points was originally designed to mean the person with the most points won though. It was designed so that people winning AF2 had put a certain amount of effort into attending runs. I had intentionally not put in *very* high point tiers because that would discourage more new attendance. DX has a certain amount of turnover among members, not always related to people winning AF2, and an extreme point system would do a lot to discourage newer members who we do rely on.
In terms of a piece of Xarcabard AF2, someone has to have attended 2 months of runs with DX without winning anything for more than 0 points in order to lot AF2. That's a decently long amount of time in my opinion. And it is certainly a far cry from people attending 1 run with DX & cherrypicking Xarc AF2, which is one of the motivating factors in putting in this system.
Even though points go into the system at a decent rate, people will either attend a zone because they want something there, they need more points for other zones, or because they simply enjoy the experience and like coming, which is completely independent of their points. There are some members like that in DX as well.
In terms of a piece of Xarcabard AF2, someone has to have attended 2 months of runs with DX without winning anything for more than 0 points in order to lot AF2. That's a decently long amount of time in my opinion. And it is certainly a far cry from people attending 1 run with DX & cherrypicking Xarc AF2, which is one of the motivating factors in putting in this system.
Even though points go into the system at a decent rate, people will either attend a zone because they want something there, they need more points for other zones, or because they simply enjoy the experience and like coming, which is completely independent of their points. There are some members like that in DX as well.
I'll throw out a random idea for the expenditure of points on a larger scale.
Shadow Mantle/Ring are argueably some of the rarest items we currently have, and I doubt that many people come to a run truly expecting to win, more so considering we typically only do DL once a month right now. I assume most people are much more concerned with AF2 they want.
They currently cost 20 points, roughly equivalent to 2 1/2 months of attendance.
What if, instead of these rare items costing 20 points lotting on them was restricted to people in the top 10 for point values, whether or not they even attend that run, i.e. Top 10 points overall, not Top 10 points attending the run. These people would be eligible to lot them, if they won their points are reducted to 0.
That might give people with extremely high point values, there are a few with 40+ points, some additional motivation & something to spend their points on, since they obviously either aren't winning much or don't need anything.
Thoughts on that?
Shadow Mantle/Ring are argueably some of the rarest items we currently have, and I doubt that many people come to a run truly expecting to win, more so considering we typically only do DL once a month right now. I assume most people are much more concerned with AF2 they want.
They currently cost 20 points, roughly equivalent to 2 1/2 months of attendance.
What if, instead of these rare items costing 20 points lotting on them was restricted to people in the top 10 for point values, whether or not they even attend that run, i.e. Top 10 points overall, not Top 10 points attending the run. These people would be eligible to lot them, if they won their points are reducted to 0.
That might give people with extremely high point values, there are a few with 40+ points, some additional motivation & something to spend their points on, since they obviously either aren't winning much or don't need anything.
Thoughts on that?
Many have quoted to "increase point cost for rare and high demand items such as cop af2-1/belts/capes, etc..."
Well, but according to the trophy post, koga chainmail (nin af2 body) has not dropped since tarnak won it in october of last year (that's six months). So, how do you classify something as a rare item? I'm also assuming it's a high demand item, since everyone and their mother has a 75 ninja.
I'm sure there are other af2 items that just seem to never drop as well, and people will tend to keep saving and saving points just for that one item.
Items are only rare when you rarely enter the zone. I'm sure if you went to the cop area zones all the time, they won't be so rare anymore. And I'm pretty sure there are many people missing that one af2 piece in windurst too, heh.
But I guess the only solution for that problem is to raise/lower the cost of an item after it has/has not dropped. I.E. for every run that koga chainmail does not drop, raise it by 2 points, and vice versa. But that might be hard to keep track of...
Well, but according to the trophy post, koga chainmail (nin af2 body) has not dropped since tarnak won it in october of last year (that's six months). So, how do you classify something as a rare item? I'm also assuming it's a high demand item, since everyone and their mother has a 75 ninja.
I'm sure there are other af2 items that just seem to never drop as well, and people will tend to keep saving and saving points just for that one item.
Items are only rare when you rarely enter the zone. I'm sure if you went to the cop area zones all the time, they won't be so rare anymore. And I'm pretty sure there are many people missing that one af2 piece in windurst too, heh.
But I guess the only solution for that problem is to raise/lower the cost of an item after it has/has not dropped. I.E. for every run that koga chainmail does not drop, raise it by 2 points, and vice versa. But that might be hard to keep track of...
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My suggestion was more so to address that some people have quite a few points. I feel that AF2 itself is at a reasonable cost, and I wanted it designed so that a certain amount of attendance warranted being able to win certain pieces, the current balance seems decent.
In response to your specific one, AF2 may often seem rare, but in the case of something like Koga Chainmail there are chances for it to drop on every single mob we do every single time we do Glacier, that chance does not exist with the Shadow items. On one glacier I believe there were 3-4 Pld Legs, there's nothing to say that can't happen with any piece of AF2, given our current schedule the maximum amount of Shadow items in any given month is 1 of each. So I would say that defines their rarity pretty well.
I offered that as a potential run off valve for points that would be something where those with exceptional attendance would be rewarded with an item that is not as generally aimed for, granted everyone might 'want' most probably do not specifically attend with that in mind.
In response to your specific one, AF2 may often seem rare, but in the case of something like Koga Chainmail there are chances for it to drop on every single mob we do every single time we do Glacier, that chance does not exist with the Shadow items. On one glacier I believe there were 3-4 Pld Legs, there's nothing to say that can't happen with any piece of AF2, given our current schedule the maximum amount of Shadow items in any given month is 1 of each. So I would say that defines their rarity pretty well.
I offered that as a potential run off valve for points that would be something where those with exceptional attendance would be rewarded with an item that is not as generally aimed for, granted everyone might 'want' most probably do not specifically attend with that in mind.
I'd spend 40 points on the mantle if it dropped. 
(provided I had 56 going in and could finally get my helm) >.>
I'm at 49 after last night with only 3 things currently to lot on besides 100s. (helm, belt, mantle). Based on the current system, I could lot each at max points 16/8/20 and still have 5 points left over, let alone whatever I'd get from the runs. Eventually I'll have PLD and WHM up into lotting range, but by then I'll have reaccumulated points anyway.
I still don't like the idea of 'bidding' but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some tiers go up either.
(provided I had 56 going in and could finally get my helm) >.>
I'm at 49 after last night with only 3 things currently to lot on besides 100s. (helm, belt, mantle). Based on the current system, I could lot each at max points 16/8/20 and still have 5 points left over, let alone whatever I'd get from the runs. Eventually I'll have PLD and WHM up into lotting range, but by then I'll have reaccumulated points anyway.
I still don't like the idea of 'bidding' but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some tiers go up either.
hex
New Member
Ah ok ty Eticket I missed that distinction.
I still like a bidding system for shadow items tho
The top10 idea is a little too all-or-nothing in my opinion... chances are most of the people with 80 points or whatever aren't going to want to blow all of them on a shadow item, but maybe they'd be willing to bid half that, for instance.
That said I think either system would be better than the way it is now.
I still like a bidding system for shadow items tho
The top10 idea is a little too all-or-nothing in my opinion... chances are most of the people with 80 points or whatever aren't going to want to blow all of them on a shadow item, but maybe they'd be willing to bid half that, for instance.
That said I think either system would be better than the way it is now.
(kidding)
Wrong hex bidding i dislike saying top ten i like
People with more points doesn't mean they are more loyal then others. Just they haven't obtained what they want yet like the other who keep spending points winning their af2.
Sorry there are more then 10 people that dedicate time to said LS.
It also screws the others who do soap to work on currency for relics. They get 1 point regardless of what zone it is they do, so those that dedicate their time there will never make the top 10 or they will start going with DX for the 2 point zones which will hurt the attendance for SOAP.
You tied SOAP into the DX lotting rules and point system. Don't forget them when you make changes.
That's not neccesarily true. There are very few zones worth 2 points. One of the typical zones for 2 points is also Xarcabard, which is done for clear/fragments jointly once a month, so SOAP members are as likely to get 2 points here as anyone. The only other zone ever worth 2 points is Glacier, and only on Clears/Attestations, which are scheduled 2-3x tops every 2 months.
Also, in terms of not forgetting SOAP people, Predaking predominantly goes to SOAP (duh, lol), and has the most points out of anyone, 59. There are also a few other members with high point values that share their time between the two, so I don't think it is unreasonable in that sense.
Looking at the current list of Top 10 people, it is mostly members who are at almost every single run of DX or SOAP, although I'm sure there are members who are there just as much, but have simply spent more points. While a Top 10 lotting style does not neccesarily measure a person's dedication it does reward those who have an excellent attendance record but have not won as much as other people.
If people dislike the idea then that's fine, it can stay at 20 points, I don't care all that much, however, there was discussion about a way to bleed out some points in the system.
Perhaps an avenue would be to ask before the run began who was willing to spend ALL their points on either of these items, and take the Top 5 people there with the most points. If either drops those people get to lot, the winner loses all their points for the item. I doubt all the high point value peopel are willing to take that large a hit to their totals, although I'm sure enough would be that there'd be 5 people competing every time.
This is just a suggestion for a way to reduce some points out of the system.
joint venture once a month :tounge-1:
Garret said:
Pred was very active back when you did a lot of Beau runs for relic farming which one was for his relic and this was before he took over SOAP :tounge-1: