Thoughts on attendance.
- Thread starter yelsaewnor
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Only thing I don't understand is, people want higher attendance rate to lot stuff for limbus but don't want it for dynamis. I know they function differently but the main princable behind getting gear is the same. If people want to keep it the same its fine be me.
It just gets annoying when everyone shows up for northlands but when a city run is happening people are xping and show no desire to come. To even see people in LS chat be all exited about certine run but don't bother to show up for others. I'm not talking about if you have a RL conflict and can't make it. Have seen more then a few people online doing something else and not bother helping out. Its just frustrating from a leadership stand point is all.
It just gets annoying when everyone shows up for northlands but when a city run is happening people are xping and show no desire to come. To even see people in LS chat be all exited about certine run but don't bother to show up for others. I'm not talking about if you have a RL conflict and can't make it. Have seen more then a few people online doing something else and not bother helping out. Its just frustrating from a leadership stand point is all.
Nekio
{Gilfinder}
Can't let it bother you, man. It'll always happen, even if you make consequences for bailing with certain zones. I can say that I also wonder who the heck a lot of the new invitees are. I haven't been able to make many runs recently, but every time I come I see 2+ new names winning AF.Heie said:
Invitees are closed. Not letting any new people in for the time being. You shouldn't see any new names unless you haven't come in a while. Everyone that was at the last run as come at least once before. Going to be cracking down speically on invitees now also. If they aren't pulling thier weight or more or less found leeching they will get one warning. After that will get a swift /breaklinkshell.
No one is any danger of this so, don't worry if you were thinking I was refering to someone. ATM everyone who comes does thier job well. But if people are found leeching runs or breaking rules we will take actions so we don't have anyone holding us back.
On another note. If anyone does have someone they really want to invite send a PM to both yel and me and we can discuss them coming. Not saying they will be able to come but there are a few job sections that could use filling. We will be very very very selective from this point on letting any new invitees in.
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With enough time, it evens out.
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Found the diamond in the rough. Just my thoughts, and I can see the other side of this, but I've seen numerous times in other areas/events/groups where rules were changed up front to make things more strict about gear, and once the "main group" got their gear, the strict rules were basically moot. I understand if someone has been waiting on RDM/BLM hat for years with bad luck on drops/lots, but with a small group that knows how to farm Glacier/Xarc and does so several times a month, we are talking of "instead of immediately getting RDM/BLM hat next couple of weeks, you get it a few weeks later, or hell, a month or two".
I understand the idea of giving an incentive for those core players, but imo, the change is not worth it if it just means getting them their items just a little sooner than they would without change. Cons outweigh the pros.
Yel and I aren't even conserned with this. What we are conserned with is people coming to certine run and not coming to other runs. Why should someone who only comes to xarc run get a drop over someone who comes to every run? And its not even the drop so much. Its just a bitch seeing people only come to a run that has AF they really want. Thats our only real consern.
Ehon
(Z_z)
Found the diamond in the rough.Ehon
Fix'd and <3 Pit
The only other rambling thought I had was a suggestion to Heie and Yels:
If you notice something happening--like "selective" attendance and those who, for some reason, win their AF then "lose their connection"--please simply deal with them. Talk to them, work something out, then kick them to the curb if it warrants it. Rules, especially blanket rules, tend to suffocate those who won't have broke them in the first place. Those who are going to be idiots will find ways to be idiots in spite of the rules.
Past that, see you all later tonight.
If it becomes too much of a problem, tell the person(s) to straighten up. From what I can see/have heard, people do their part in attendance overall, but making attendance rules of a % based or X out of Y runs, only hurts those who do have job/life at dynamis time and come whenever they are able to.
edit: What did you fix? O.O
edit: What did you fix? O.O
If we keep it the same:
Pros:
-People who can not make every run will not be discouraged from coming because they have an equal chance of getting AF.
-Rules remain simple
-Avoid drama caused by change
Cons:
-People who are dedicated to making every run become discouraged. (refering back to Ruby's comment)
-People will not make an effort to come to runs that they are not interested in because there is little insentive to do so.
-Because of the flux of people coming and going we will not establish a well coordinated group with practice working together and dedication to coming.
If we change the system so that members must have a certain level of attendance in the last month(or other set time period) to lot first tier:
Pros:
-People who meet the attendance minimum will be rewarded with a chance to lot at a tier preceding the tiers we have established.
-If everyone who wants a piece has met the minimum attendance this will result in no change. If no one has this will also result in no change.
-People will be encouraged to treat dynamis as a "static"
-People who have come to give and not only to recieve are rewarded
Cons:
-People who are not able to or not inclined to attend regularly may be discouraged from coming at all if they do not have the patience to see their LS mates who have higher attendance win before them. (this goes back to what Pit said... everyone will get AF eventually but should we reward those who keep the shell going by attending or those who only come once in a while, and may stop coming at all after getting their drop?)
-Leadership will be required to start an attendance thread so that everyone can track their own attendance easily
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This is just the way I see it. If attendance is not a factor why should differentiating between those with high attendance and those without it be a problem? If attendance is a factor shouldn't those who are not able or willing to attend regularly have the courtesy to wait behind those who do?
lol Yels, I understand where you are coming from, and if I had the time, I would sit down and make a pros/cons that would favor what I was saying. As I said in my post, I understand both sides, but I see no reason worthwhile to make changes, plain and simple. Beginning versions of this shell went well with the current rules.
Tarnak
Naked Thief
As garret said, if it ain't broke don't fix it. We have seen first hand the differences of rules and results and that was with open membership. Closed static will change that factoring up quite a bit. And some cant make it just because they simply cant stand feeling like they are on dial-up. 
I promise when my pc gets here in the next few weeks my attendance will change a lot
I promise when my pc gets here in the next few weeks my attendance will change a lot
It seems like a pain in the ass to implement really. Would you tell the people before the run if they met the requirement or not?
I agree it could be useful but like someone mentioned before, since we're only 2 runs in with our 'static' group, maybe wait a month or so to make any changes to see how necessary it would be.
Really my only problem at all with our runs right now is the breakdown in communication and people not paying attention or not listening because they think they know everything or something doesn't apply to them. I was completely amazed we cleared Xarc a week ago. It seems to be more of a problem with Ultima members as opposed to invites too. This is probably best placed in another thread though.
I agree it could be useful but like someone mentioned before, since we're only 2 runs in with our 'static' group, maybe wait a month or so to make any changes to see how necessary it would be.
Really my only problem at all with our runs right now is the breakdown in communication and people not paying attention or not listening because they think they know everything or something doesn't apply to them. I was completely amazed we cleared Xarc a week ago. It seems to be more of a problem with Ultima members as opposed to invites too. This is probably best placed in another thread though.
Said person only comes to dynamis runs he needs, to lot the few pieces of AF he still wants. Once he gets his pieces, he will more than likely stop doing dynamis (ex: relic holders). There isn't anything anyone can do about it, and it's best to just roll with the punches. Sure, it might dick over a few people, but if attendance is good as is and people keep coming and we QUIT INVITING EVERY FUCKING PERSON WE KNOW (ETICKET), then I don't see any need for a change just yet. Eventually in theory, everyone will get theirs. Except for when people like Coice who have every job at 75 and have lot hacks want every piece of af2 for every job, and continually win things over everyone else who hasn't recieved shit. BUT, I don't see that happening in ULTIMA GUYS!
Pit, when you get time if you could please post your counter points. IDC if its not posted for another week or two. Personally what yel posted covers basically everything IMO. I am sure there is stuff missing and I would like to see it and understand. Also nice to see things from the other side.
And to what eticket said about this. If it was implimented it wouldn't be done for most likely another month. As for lotting yel or I or one of the sacs would have attendance pulled up. Would build a spreadsheet that shows if you can lot or not. Basically if someone lots that shouldn't and other people lotted would ask them to pass. If they don't pass, well we all know what happens then. Any way nothing is being done as of yet. We are just trying to get a feel for what would work best. Any ideas are welcome.
Nah, that's alright. I already said my piece. If you guys can't see my points from my posts, then no worries. All in all, I am one of those who am thinking of joining, but will be able to come "sometimes". If something is passed, then I'll probably pass also. I know there are always others out there like me who are on the lower side of attendance when it comes to rules such as what we are talking about. Shit drops much faster in glacier/xarc, so we are only talking a small time frame before everyone has what they want from there, compared to how it used to be. That's why i said, that shouldn't weigh as big as what you guys are making it. If it was like it used to be, where 1 BLM hat dropped a year, then yea.. i could understand things changing. But we are a need before greed basis, like it has always been, and imo, should stay since we have a small group.
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