Ninja vs Tiamat

Fiko

Fiko

Fikowned
FC/Active Member
I know this will either go ignored or I'll be flamed, but here it goes.

I still think NIN would work great on tiamat (and jormy for that matter), need to let hate set in though, TAs to go off, etc. You can't deny that I *was* doing well, till I died. Keep in mind also that was my only time attempting to tank anything of that proportion. I wasn't taking much damage either till he flew into the air. As I said, double march + haste spell + all my haste gear = 24 second recast on utsusemi: Ni. Also keep in mind my -26% physical damage taken(tiny incomparison to what i *could* get with HQ arhat's), +21 vit (genbu's kabuto + tavnazian taco), 500+ defense. I take similar damage to other tanks when utsu is down^^ Only weak point is HP.

Enmity-wise, even, nin has a lot of options. Someone with an unlimited amount of gil can get up to +33 enmity. I only have +21, but it gets the job done^^ Even the elemental wheel pulls a good amount of hate with that amount of enmity.

I heard aqua mention he had trouble healing due to equip changes.. if so, I could just ditch the equip changes and try my best otherwise.

And yeah I made a bad pull.. it wasnt totally clear where I was supposed to pull it to. I wasnt with for the last tiamat fight.

To be completely honest, I went nuts last night setting up macros, buying equip, etc for tiamat. I was excited, I really wanted to try it.

To give up after one try, hurt to say the least. What you guys totally shot down after one try is something I put one hell of a lot of effort into.

Another problem I suppose is that I was the only nin with the correct equip setup for it. Not going to evade him, and not going to keep hate with katanas. Then again, we only have 2 nins in the first place. Nin mains anyway.

If my nin is useless at 90% of ls events, why do I even bother?
 
Well from my perspective, All I saw was a Tiamat going crazy the 1st round, it wasnt your fault, it was a collective fault, but...we did come up with a good pld/nin strat and that worked great.

Why try new things if it just means more death if our current method works fine?

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

You are needed at LS events, but tanking Tiamat may not be a part of that.

However if you can find some sort of evidence that other shells, jp or maybe on other servers, that use nin as main tanks, then Im sure more would be inclined to try it.
 
It was just a sloppy first attempt. Give up so easily, it's sad, and i'm damn pissed off about it.
 
With the new nerf that decreases emnity as shadows are eaten, it's make it even more difficult to start with NIN/WAR tanks.

I think once we get going and the wyrm has been situated, NIN/WAR might be a solid alternative to PLD/NIN provided we can keep those Trick Attacks flowing in.

Maybe using NIN/WAR for Sneak Attacks?

http://www.ultimals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1792

However, the bottom line is that I think we'd all agree that Loser's idea of all mages subbing SMN for Arial Armor in the tank party was a great success. Since we still have only beaten Tiamat once, I would rather make the fight old hat before we introduce too many new variables.

Tanking adds is as important, if not more important, than tanking Tiamat. It's not glamorous, but without it we would have no chance of success. No one person in the LS can defeat the wyrms alone. It takes everyone performing their roles to the best of their abilities, even if that means they are doing something that they would rather not be doing.
 
The hate loss from shadows is nothing compared to the amount of hate Pld loses through damage taken, which is immense.

Fiko should be able to tank this as well as the Pld if we utilize our TA correctly and SATA but perhaps a mix of Pld/War and Nin/War would be effective, we've been using that approach for Gods recently and it has been working well.

Question Fiko, when he is flying in the air and attacks does that attack go straight through shadows, it's pure magic damage, or do shadows still absorb it?
 
I think the bottom line here is that we just kind of suck at giving NIN tank the proper support they need for HNM fights. It's not intended as a slight, we just had no NINs who came to anything for so long that we got set in our ways... With that in mind - let's try tanking next Fafnir with NINs. This would be a nice, relatively lowkey situation to get in some practice with the style, I think. It's been suggested before, but then we always just naturally start a tank PT with PLDs^^;;.

Anyways I think it's a good idea, I've seen with my own eyes how strong NIN can be on HNMs, with the right support. I also think a neat idea would be NIN/WAR together with PLD/NIN who cures the NIN for hate when the wyrm flies. Incidentally there are plenty of ways to avoid equip-change problems when the target in question is someone as important as a main tank...

-benny
 
Garret said:
Question Fiko, when he is flying in the air and attacks does that attack go straight through shadows, it's pure magic damage, or do shadows still absorb it?
Click to expand...

When I was tanking for a little bit last time as war/nin, I got hit with air attacks through shadows. Think it was a firaga... not sure tho. When he landed I still had my shadows.

Pretty sure nin/war and war/nin can do this easily with right equip setup. Coice had a nice war/nin setup that looked like it would work very well. Only suggestion I could see would be camp ah for demon earring, or do a few lvl 50 garrisons and farm them.

SATA WS on tank is only way blink tanking will work. Just have to get used to having a melee party drop from alliance get tp on adds, bring them back in, dump tp, rinse and repeat.

That's all I can think of for the moment far as strategy goes. Back to house hunting!
 
Ya'll know that in most linkshells PLD taken the back seat to tanking?

NIN are usually the go to people because they have great gear options, variety of hate tools(provoke&ninjitsu's primarily), have stronger debuffs than RDMs(Kurayami&Hojo: Ni), and have shadows O_O;

Also, I've been level'ing NIN lately and have not noticed how shadow emnity lose has effected my hate. Possibly this is because Utsusemi causes hate anyways, when casted.
 
I completely agree with this, not only on Tiamat. I've wondered for a while now how such a strong LS, for the most part, ignores what is arguably the most powerful spell in the game (Utsusemi, obviously) in a lot of HNM situations.
 
As we know an effective Pld fight vs. HNM requires /Smn for Aerial Armor for tanks.

I have read on several forums that sucessful Ninja support requires Smn's for Earthen Ward used on Utsusemi using tanks in same fashion Aerial Armor is for a Pld. Except supposively it has even better results.

As far as hate is concerned it is all our jobs to allow a tank to secure hate. We cant just do whatever we want at anytime and then turn around and point a finger at So and So for not holding hate. A Ninja or War/Nin can hold hate fine im sure if given the proper teamwork and support.

As far as SA on Wyrms, to be honest im very afraid of a Flail......well its more of a paranoia, but all the same Id be up for it as long as the entire group feels comfortable with it.

The problem with the initial set up was pretty obvious for me, we got hit with about 80% of the Firaga 3's. 1 stunner is simply not enough to handle the load. We had 3 Stunners on our 1st win and quickly changed back to that format of 3 stuns for the 2nd round of last nights fight and it seemed to be the ticket.

I think most can agree that Tiamat 100% to 30% is a fairly easy and methodical fight. At 30% he increasingly gets harder to 10% where hes absolutely insane. If a Ninja can do well up to 30% then the last Berserk Mode should be much much easier to handle. Just my thoughts.

~Dar

*edit* Pld/Nin method worked awesome, that can also be implemented into Nin/War set up possibly.
 
If we had enough monks, Id really like the try that monk chi blast party thing. 5 mnks 1 brd and just bring us in everyone 3 min to do 500~ + or - dmg to it x5 O_Ob.
 
Darwen said:
Pld/Nin method worked awesome, that can also be implemented into Nin/War set up possibly.
Click to expand...

All i did was be the tanks support which was heal him flash shield bash etc. Pld/Nin shines when it lands and does 2 hour which where i would recast ni cause aoe land takes all shadows and i would cover shrikey which then my blinks would eat the 2 hour long enough for the /smn to get blink up before cover wore. Which was working flawlessly till it managed to hit shrikey with the last hit cause blink wasnt up yet
 
Darwen said:
Pld/Nin method worked awesome, that can also be implemented into Nin/War set up possibly.
Click to expand...

All i did was be the tanks support which was heal him flash shield bash etc. Pld/Nin shines when it lands and does 2 hour which where i would recast ni cause aoe land takes all shadows and i would cover shrikey which then my blinks would eat the 2 hour long enough for the /smn to get blink up before cover wore. I have trouble seeing nin/war's being the main tanks thats my 2 cents
 
Fayevalentine said:
If we had enough monks, Id really like the try that monk chi blast party thing. 5 mnks 1 brd and just bring us in everyone 3 min to do 500~ + or - dmg to it x5 O_Ob.
Click to expand...



just get more smn's i was doing about 1,000 every time it landed
 
I've always thought using nins on fafnir would be a great idea far as showing what we can do ^^

One problem I always thought was the case was that we only have 2 nin mains in shell. Others have NIN leveled but from my understanding, they're more needed as their other jobs. Maybe push Ddsavage up to vote?^^

As for tiamat, yeah his stupid attacks in the air go through shadows. Then when he lands he wipes shadows with that aoe.

Also, I will agree that using nin or war/nin is a group effort.. a nin sucks without the right support. And from what I read, nin vs HNMs is all about equip changes. +11% haste vs 0. I had utsu up 90% of the time, as I said. And going higher up.. on Jormy, having Utsusemi up as much as possible determines how long the battle will take, wouldnt it?

I just wish we got more inventory space..I was 60/60 last night @.@

But as I said, I always thought it'd be a good idea to try this on a smaller dragon first (fafnir). Should give it a shot.
 
Fayevalentine said:
If we had enough monks, Id really like the try that monk chi blast party thing. 5 mnks 1 brd and just bring us in everyone 3 min to do 500~ + or - dmg to it x5 O_Ob.
Click to expand...

The reason I was so psyched to do TA WS this time is cause I was so unimpressed with Chi Blast Nerf and for the lessened Damage Chi Blast builds hate terribley fast with our strategy.

However, turned out Mnk/Thf using TA WS without SA was a complete bust damage wise besides the fact it opened a nice SC. (average Dragon Kick was 100-150 w/ a Highs around 250-275). Although my TP gain was as fast as a Sams if not faster. I could easily be at 300 TP and waiting to be rotated in before next wave of TA. The DoT does add up im sure and after all it is another SC, so maybe I eat Yellow Curry next time and just go with it, worst I can do is D2 and change to /Whm.

~Dar
 
Yea Dar i ate Yellow Curry for Tiamat and highest Asurian Fist was about 275, where my no MND gear Chi Blast was about 200-300
 
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