Merit Point Adjustments (5/30/2007)
- Thread starter defiant
- Start date
yeah but longer rolls means more time to DD!
Varda
Clothcraft Cat
I love that we get more magic merits to use. I think I'll finally start putting some points in there now that I don't have to worry about limiting myself too much. Probably just start with enfeebling and then wait again to see what else catches my eye.
The new merits for blu/cor/pup... I guess blu should be happy and I think cor will turn out pretty decent. I feel kinda left out again as pup though. ;_;
The new merits for blu/cor/pup... I guess blu should be happy and I think cor will turn out pretty decent. I feel kinda left out again as pup though. ;_;
Varda
Clothcraft Cat
Switching HP... seems nice for merit parties when my puppet pulls too much hate early and will die without it, but it seems like an MP drain on the healer. Same thing with HNMs, it'll add to puppet survivability vs AoEs, but again at an MP cost.
Switching enmity seems about the same. If enmity is a big enough problem that it needs to be switched, either the master or puppet is going to be beaten to a pulp. Another MP drain.
The traits look like they will be helpful... for the puppet. Is it going to be a big enough boost? I have no idea.
From a damage standpoint, my puppet and I make up a full DD; maybe damage is 60-40, but let's say it breaks even between the two. We're easily competitive up to 70 or so given really good equip (for a pup) and the nice attachments. But merits aren't really giving us the full effect.
For instance, take a 75mnk and a 75pup. Let's assume they're doing equal damage (I think the mnk would be slightly favored though). Now we add full h2h merits to both. The mnk gets full benefit. The pup increases the master's damage, but it doesn't do anything for the puppet. Even assuming h2h doesn't scale linearly, I don't see the master's damage increase matching the mnk's.
Oh, but we can use pup merits to increase the puppet's melee or ranged skill. So the pup spends a bunch of merits and increases the melee skill the same number of points as the h2h skill rose. The pup should match the mnk again, but had to spend 2x as many merits to do it. ;_;
Oh yeah, and pup-specific merits only work when you're 75, while h2h still apply at lower levels (though scaled down).
It's that kind of thing that leaves me kinda "meh" about meriting for pup. Maybe the numbers aren't exact, but the reasoning seems solid enough that I'd have to see good data to convince me I'm mistaken about it. Pups will benefit from merits, but it just doesn't seem like it's as good a boost as other jobs get.
Hopefully someone comes up with good uses for the new ones, but right now they just seem like helping the puppet survive longer and increasing its damage a bit. Where is the Devotion or Paralyze III or Feint or Freeze II or Shikikoyo? Where's the cool stuff?
Switching enmity seems about the same. If enmity is a big enough problem that it needs to be switched, either the master or puppet is going to be beaten to a pulp. Another MP drain.
The traits look like they will be helpful... for the puppet. Is it going to be a big enough boost? I have no idea.
From a damage standpoint, my puppet and I make up a full DD; maybe damage is 60-40, but let's say it breaks even between the two. We're easily competitive up to 70 or so given really good equip (for a pup) and the nice attachments. But merits aren't really giving us the full effect.
For instance, take a 75mnk and a 75pup. Let's assume they're doing equal damage (I think the mnk would be slightly favored though). Now we add full h2h merits to both. The mnk gets full benefit. The pup increases the master's damage, but it doesn't do anything for the puppet. Even assuming h2h doesn't scale linearly, I don't see the master's damage increase matching the mnk's.
Oh, but we can use pup merits to increase the puppet's melee or ranged skill. So the pup spends a bunch of merits and increases the melee skill the same number of points as the h2h skill rose. The pup should match the mnk again, but had to spend 2x as many merits to do it. ;_;
Oh yeah, and pup-specific merits only work when you're 75, while h2h still apply at lower levels (though scaled down).
It's that kind of thing that leaves me kinda "meh" about meriting for pup. Maybe the numbers aren't exact, but the reasoning seems solid enough that I'd have to see good data to convince me I'm mistaken about it. Pups will benefit from merits, but it just doesn't seem like it's as good a boost as other jobs get.
Hopefully someone comes up with good uses for the new ones, but right now they just seem like helping the puppet survive longer and increasing its damage a bit. Where is the Devotion or Paralyze III or Feint or Freeze II or Shikikoyo? Where's the cool stuff?
Archain
Kitteh Paws
I'm totally interested in the time length for the swap /ja's on PUP. If they're low enough in /recast then PUP might actually see some automaton tank time. PUP is odd in that it can wear a decent amount of mage gear, if it can use that mage gear to turn itself a secondary "HP storage tank" for an automaton it may turn it into some sort of weird convert style tanking job.
I'm hoping that I see a few people play with it and that the converter is very low in recast, it'd actually give PUP the strength it needs to be a very powerful soloer or even a tank job in some cases.
Repair is normally 90 secs of Regen (+30 tic @ 50 w/ AO3) with a 3 min recast (or 2:30 if x5 in Repair) and a Remedy/Erase if used with the Puppetry Babouches. If Kuroko Change is anywhere near 3 mins, then I seriously think Valoredge might actually be able to tank something. If it's 20 or 15 it won't be as helpful as I wished it would be.
Kuroko Change is the merit I'm most interested in on that job. I can just imagine becoming an uninterruptable cure for your Automaton tank (like Spirit Link). If you're able to do it at long range you may be able to keep yourself out of harms way with regard to status effects.
I'm hoping like hell that it's a 3 or 5 min ability and think it'd still be alright if it was 10. I honestly wish you could just cure it directly like an NPC. I really want to see a PUP putting something like a V. Cloak to use with more focus on the Automaton and less on the player character itself. I do have to admit it's funny as hell watching an Automaton drop a Ridill WAR multiple times.
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Varda
Clothcraft Cat
Well, that's a good point.... There had been some interest in pup tanking before (though with the master tanking and puppet curing), but it seemed like it tailed off after a while. Maybe this will revitalize it a bit. It could be worth checking out.
It does seem like the first 2 abilities are good for soloing, but they're only available at 75. Not sure it's going to help a whole lot at that point, especially for those of us with other jobs available.
It does seem like the first 2 abilities are good for soloing, but they're only available at 75. Not sure it's going to help a whole lot at that point, especially for those of us with other jobs available.
Archain
Kitteh Paws
I wish they'd make that job offer you more options to support your puppet.
DRG treats the Wyverns as support. The Wyvern is normally used to heal up the player character and can remove some status effects when the DRG does a WS.
SMN uses the summons as their drivers, but they can be resummoned when they've got low HP as long as the SMN has an MP means to support it.
BST can recharm or call their own pet and use it as their driver, people love this job and it's proven many times that it can take care of itself. I wish they'd allow BST to have more control in terms of which Sic move they do (OMGAH SIC II!). They could seriously give BST a window much like the BP one for the Sics.
PUP could do great if they'd allow the master to perform a better role at acting as support for thier automatons (if they choose to). PUP doesn't have Spirit Link, while something like that is coming out with Kuroko Change I just wish they'd allow the master to have a greater role when it comes to automaton maintenance. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing it become a viable subjob to some of the mage jobs as a secondary healer or as a single minded Flasher or something. I just wish they'd allow direct care for it. Let me have the option of giving it Regen, Poisona, Shell, Protect, Haste, Refresh, Phalanx II, Cure, and other single target buffs.
DRG treats the Wyverns as support. The Wyvern is normally used to heal up the player character and can remove some status effects when the DRG does a WS.
SMN uses the summons as their drivers, but they can be resummoned when they've got low HP as long as the SMN has an MP means to support it.
BST can recharm or call their own pet and use it as their driver, people love this job and it's proven many times that it can take care of itself. I wish they'd allow BST to have more control in terms of which Sic move they do (OMGAH SIC II!). They could seriously give BST a window much like the BP one for the Sics.
PUP could do great if they'd allow the master to perform a better role at acting as support for thier automatons (if they choose to). PUP doesn't have Spirit Link, while something like that is coming out with Kuroko Change I just wish they'd allow the master to have a greater role when it comes to automaton maintenance. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing it become a viable subjob to some of the mage jobs as a secondary healer or as a single minded Flasher or something. I just wish they'd allow direct care for it. Let me have the option of giving it Regen, Poisona, Shell, Protect, Haste, Refresh, Phalanx II, Cure, and other single target buffs.
Araius
Fatty Pirate
Oh god..how about...Memento Mori-ga in a BLM party. It'd only last long enough for 1 or maybe 2 nukes but...+20 MAB x4 or 5 BLM, bahahaha
I have a feeling it'll be on a long-ish timer though, maybe 10 minutes? I'm going to hold off deciding what to get until after I find out recast timers, and how powerful Convergence is. Single-target beefed up Frightful Roar or Enervation could prove to be extremely useful. I wonder if Convergence + Geist Wall would dispel 2 buffs like Fenrir's dispel move?
Edit: Looking at the spell list, there are quite a few spells that were previously just marginally useful which now could become a staple spell to set. Others could be pretty interesting in certain situations.
Diffusion - Exuviation: AoE Erase (and a little bit of HP recovery)
Convergence - Actinic Burst: Single-target buffed up Flash. Possibly longer duration? The blind effect is already pretty potent
Diffusion - Saline Coat: AoE Magic Defense Bonus (+40, decays over time). Could be useful in several HNM fights. Maybe even AV >.>;
Diffusion - Amplification: AoE MAB and MDB +10. Lasts longer than Memento Mori and Saline Coat I believe.
Diffusion - Warm-Up: AoE Accuracy and Evasion bonus. Could be very useful with NIN tank or in melee DD party vs. high evasion mobs
Convergence - Enervation: Single-target Defense and Mag. Defense down. AoE effect is ~-10 Def. and -8 MDB
Convergence - Frost Breath: Single-target Ice damage and Paralyze. Damage is already pretty decent, but I doubt will be affected aside from resists. Possibly higher or more potent Paralyze proc rate?
Diffusion - Zephyr Mantle: AoE Blink, gives 4 shadows. Limited use in melee parties, as AoE that is absorbed by shadows will just wipe this. Could be useful in very specific situations. BLU/THF tend to have this set anyways as it gives cheap Conserve MP.
Convergence - Infrasonics: Single-target Evasion down. AoE effect is ~-20 Evasion. Should be significant.
Convergence - Bad Breath: Single-target debuff + damage. Possible effects typically include Slow, Poison, Silence, Paralyze, Weight, Bind, and Blind. Would need testing, could be interesting. Really sucks as it is
Convergence - Maelstrom: Single-target Water damage. In the mid-60's this was a potent MB spell for a BLU nuke. Could be powerful enough to be worth setting to MB on Darkness or Distortion.
Diffusion - Feather Barrier: AoE Evasion bonus. Very doubtful this would be more useful than Warm-up, but meh.
Convergence - Cold Wave: Single-target powerful Frost. Normally ~18/tick and ~-35 AGI decaying over time. Not great duration normally, maybe longer now, or even higher DoT?
Diffusion - Refueling: AoE Haste. Haste effect is less than that of the RDM/WHM spell and Garuda Hastega (10% vs. 15%), but would be AoE and would allow SMN's to use other buffs.
Convergence - Myseterious Light: Single-target Wind damage + Weight. Possibly high Gravity proc rate?
Diffusion - Cocoon: AoE Defense Bonus. Gives +50% Defense, exceptionally useful for PLD tanks.
I have a feeling it'll be on a long-ish timer though, maybe 10 minutes? I'm going to hold off deciding what to get until after I find out recast timers, and how powerful Convergence is. Single-target beefed up Frightful Roar or Enervation could prove to be extremely useful. I wonder if Convergence + Geist Wall would dispel 2 buffs like Fenrir's dispel move?
Edit: Looking at the spell list, there are quite a few spells that were previously just marginally useful which now could become a staple spell to set. Others could be pretty interesting in certain situations.
Diffusion - Exuviation: AoE Erase (and a little bit of HP recovery)
Convergence - Actinic Burst: Single-target buffed up Flash. Possibly longer duration? The blind effect is already pretty potent
Diffusion - Saline Coat: AoE Magic Defense Bonus (+40, decays over time). Could be useful in several HNM fights. Maybe even AV >.>;
Diffusion - Amplification: AoE MAB and MDB +10. Lasts longer than Memento Mori and Saline Coat I believe.
Diffusion - Warm-Up: AoE Accuracy and Evasion bonus. Could be very useful with NIN tank or in melee DD party vs. high evasion mobs
Convergence - Enervation: Single-target Defense and Mag. Defense down. AoE effect is ~-10 Def. and -8 MDB
Convergence - Frost Breath: Single-target Ice damage and Paralyze. Damage is already pretty decent, but I doubt will be affected aside from resists. Possibly higher or more potent Paralyze proc rate?
Diffusion - Zephyr Mantle: AoE Blink, gives 4 shadows. Limited use in melee parties, as AoE that is absorbed by shadows will just wipe this. Could be useful in very specific situations. BLU/THF tend to have this set anyways as it gives cheap Conserve MP.
Convergence - Infrasonics: Single-target Evasion down. AoE effect is ~-20 Evasion. Should be significant.
Convergence - Bad Breath: Single-target debuff + damage. Possible effects typically include Slow, Poison, Silence, Paralyze, Weight, Bind, and Blind. Would need testing, could be interesting. Really sucks as it is
Convergence - Maelstrom: Single-target Water damage. In the mid-60's this was a potent MB spell for a BLU nuke. Could be powerful enough to be worth setting to MB on Darkness or Distortion.
Diffusion - Feather Barrier: AoE Evasion bonus. Very doubtful this would be more useful than Warm-up, but meh.
Convergence - Cold Wave: Single-target powerful Frost. Normally ~18/tick and ~-35 AGI decaying over time. Not great duration normally, maybe longer now, or even higher DoT?
Diffusion - Refueling: AoE Haste. Haste effect is less than that of the RDM/WHM spell and Garuda Hastega (10% vs. 15%), but would be AoE and would allow SMN's to use other buffs.
Convergence - Myseterious Light: Single-target Wind damage + Weight. Possibly high Gravity proc rate?
Diffusion - Cocoon: AoE Defense Bonus. Gives +50% Defense, exceptionally useful for PLD tanks.
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I second that!
Why I do believe Garret *tried* to make a funny.
Araius
Fatty Pirate
Diffusion is 20 min recast @.@ glad I didn't get it. Seems very situational with such a long recast, probably only feasible if you have maybe 3+ BLU to rotate it. Convergence seems to be great though, 10 min recast but pretty effective. Think I'll go at least 1 Convergence, at least 1 Assimilation, maybe 3 Enchainment...really undecided as of yet...but not like I have the time to get all those merits anyways haha.
Edit: Actually, possibly the most feasible use of Diffusion might be cycling BLU's to do Diffusion + Saline Coat on something like Proto-Ultima's Citadel Buster. I'd like to try using Saline Coat on my own and seeing how the damage reduction would be before getting Diffusion of couse, but that seems like a practical application. Trouble is there aren't very many times like that where you know -exactly- when you're going to need to use it.
Edit: Actually, possibly the most feasible use of Diffusion might be cycling BLU's to do Diffusion + Saline Coat on something like Proto-Ultima's Citadel Buster. I'd like to try using Saline Coat on my own and seeing how the damage reduction would be before getting Diffusion of couse, but that seems like a practical application. Trouble is there aren't very many times like that where you know -exactly- when you're going to need to use it.
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Varda
Clothcraft Cat
The PUP abilities turn out to have a very low recast time. 4 minutes for the HP swap ability, and 2 minutes for the enmity swap. You can knock it down to 3 and 1:30 by spending more merits. I bet you could get some interesting things going with this, but I'd have to try it out....
Shame it's only for level 75 though, they could be nice tools for 40+.
Shame it's only for level 75 though, they could be nice tools for 40+.