Cycle Vote
- Thread starter Heie
- Start date
Varda
Clothcraft Cat
You're thinking February (about 3/4 the time). Other months are slightly longer.
So how many dynamis runs extra are we talking about in a monthly cycle compared to a 4 week cycle? Since some months are 2 days longer than 4 weeks.
Varda
Clothcraft Cat
There are several choices, each with drawbacks. Monthly cycle means some months could require 5/9 runs to be 50%+ while others just need 4/8. 2 or 4 week cycles mean we have to keep track more closely of when a cycle begins/ends, as opposed to the easy month divisions. And both could be complicated by missing runs due to holidays, HNM windows, etc.
That last issue could be avoided by basing the cycle on the last 4 or 8 runs instead of going by weeks, but you still have the odd beginning/end dates. It's not really apparent which method will tend to work better, and in the end it probably won't matter all that much.
That last issue could be avoided by basing the cycle on the last 4 or 8 runs instead of going by weeks, but you still have the odd beginning/end dates. It's not really apparent which method will tend to work better, and in the end it probably won't matter all that much.
Coice
Die Recently?
3 Week Cycle / For shits and sniggles.
This cycles crap is not going to work as well as limbus cycles.
Why?
Simply because loot is given at the end of a limbus cycle, not during. Dynamis never has a set end. So this won't really prevent cherry picking very much (or at all, see below). Since everyone starts at 'can lot', lotting privileges would have to be 'on the next cycle you cannot lot'.
Let's say that we are doing my proposed 3 week cycle. This means that you need to goto 3 out of the 6 runs to be able to lot.
Week 1
Sunday O Weds O
week 2
Sunday O Weds X
Week 3
Sunday X Weds X
End of that cycle, so i have lotting privileges for next cycle? well.. lets see here...
Week 4
Sunday X Weds X
Week 5
Sunday X Weds X
Week 6
Sunday X Weds O <-- I can lot here, how long did I go without attending, was it really EIGHT runs in a SIX run cycle?
This just means that the longer the cycle, the less I can attend and abuse the system :icecream:
If it can be abused, it will be.
The only way to squelch this hole is to have the cycles be 'from today, 3 weeks back', tracking that data is gonna be fun.
And a simple points system does not work (well they do at the start of whatever), but the strong get stronger, weak stay weak. Not enough points are depleted from members. Why in the holy sojourn's hell would you go with DX to dynamis when you have 0 points and can't lot shit, when there are a dozen other shells out there, where you can lot anything you want and are just as competent? Because it's less people to lot against? How many people were lotting RDM last Xarc?
SOAP was an honor system, it's not like you're lotting against 10 people (except maybe that damn hat)
Simply put: It does not matter which system you choose. There will:
STILL BE HOLES
STILL BE CHERRY PICKERS
STILL BE PROBLEMS
On the monthly issue: It would vary by month, and the day the month starts on, would cause a lot of confusion on months that start on a Sunday, or weds. For example, using THIS MONTH as an example, there are 5 Sundays and 4 Wednesdays. Means that if you can only attend on weds, you are screwed on lotting because of the offset. Again, this means I can abuse the system even more, with going for half a month, then not going for 1 1/2 months and still lotting your le3t gearz.
Someone please come and take my post apart.
YES, YES I AM FUCKING BORED!!! AND I DO LIKE THE PRETTY COLORS
This cycles crap is not going to work as well as limbus cycles.
Why?
Simply because loot is given at the end of a limbus cycle, not during. Dynamis never has a set end. So this won't really prevent cherry picking very much (or at all, see below). Since everyone starts at 'can lot', lotting privileges would have to be 'on the next cycle you cannot lot'.
Let's say that we are doing my proposed 3 week cycle. This means that you need to goto 3 out of the 6 runs to be able to lot.
Week 1
Sunday O Weds O
week 2
Sunday O Weds X
Week 3
Sunday X Weds X
End of that cycle, so i have lotting privileges for next cycle? well.. lets see here...
Week 4
Sunday X Weds X
Week 5
Sunday X Weds X
Week 6
Sunday X Weds O <-- I can lot here, how long did I go without attending, was it really EIGHT runs in a SIX run cycle?
This just means that the longer the cycle, the less I can attend and abuse the system :icecream:
If it can be abused, it will be.
The only way to squelch this hole is to have the cycles be 'from today, 3 weeks back', tracking that data is gonna be fun.
And a simple points system does not work (well they do at the start of whatever), but the strong get stronger, weak stay weak. Not enough points are depleted from members. Why in the holy sojourn's hell would you go with DX to dynamis when you have 0 points and can't lot shit, when there are a dozen other shells out there, where you can lot anything you want and are just as competent? Because it's less people to lot against? How many people were lotting RDM last Xarc?
SOAP was an honor system, it's not like you're lotting against 10 people (except maybe that damn hat)
Simply put: It does not matter which system you choose. There will:
STILL BE HOLES
STILL BE CHERRY PICKERS
STILL BE PROBLEMS
On the monthly issue: It would vary by month, and the day the month starts on, would cause a lot of confusion on months that start on a Sunday, or weds. For example, using THIS MONTH as an example, there are 5 Sundays and 4 Wednesdays. Means that if you can only attend on weds, you are screwed on lotting because of the offset. Again, this means I can abuse the system even more, with going for half a month, then not going for 1 1/2 months and still lotting your le3t gearz.
Someone please come and take my post apart.
YES, YES I AM FUCKING BORED!!! AND I DO LIKE THE PRETTY COLORS
For the record people won AF in DX with 0 points all the time. When the piece you want in Xarc drops, it doesn't matter if someone has 60 points or 16, they can still lot it.
You can't use the never attend and never earn points arguments to make the same point.
In the end it works the same way as cycles, if you attend 50% or more of the runs, you'll typically have enough points to lot anything you want.
On your overall point though, I mostly agree. However, the majority will always want some system in place.
I agree that the possiblity for cherry picking is still there Coice. That is why I voted for 2 week cycle to minimize the possiblity that someone could go so long without coming and still have voting rights. If someone does what you proposed without explaination or repeatedly in my opinion that is grounds to have them kicked. We do not need people who are looking to exploit the system to come with us.
Well if you think about it, there's only a very small number of AF that are in short supply and high demand. Realistically we're talking about the "good" northland AFs for popular jobs - Duelist's Chapeau, Sorc. Petasos, Valor Surcoat, Duelist's Tabard, Assassin's Armlets.... and that's about it. There are others that are good, but the jobs aren't as popular so less natural competition, and there are others that lots of people will lot but they are awful, so those AF are kind of self-regulating.
Given that there's only about half a dozen AF we really need to concern ourselves with, maybe there's a better way? I don't have a concrete suggestion here but it might be an easier problem.
-benny
Given that there's only about half a dozen AF we really need to concern ourselves with, maybe there's a better way? I don't have a concrete suggestion here but it might be an easier problem.
-benny
Just for example..
Under an honor system the same person who would do as in Coice's example could do this.
Say the person wanted only to come to Glacier runs and nothing else.
Week 1
Glacier:O Bastok:X
Week 2
Sandy:X Xarc:X
Week 3
Xarc:X Windy:X
Week 4
Jeuno:X Bastok:X
Week 5
Sandy:X Glacier:O
Week 6
Xarc:X Xarc:X
In either case the person misses 8 runs in a row and is still able to lot. An honor system, by my understanding, proposes no rules other than that you may win only one AF per run unless it goes "free". So there is no rule that prevents the above example from happening.
People are expected to come to every run because they are an honor system and thus expected to respect each other. But is an honor system really needed to insure that people respect each other? A point system or 50% cycle system is no reason to try to take advantage of your friends by putting in as little effort as you possibly can.
As to the last statement, I completely agree. If someone has their mind made up to abuse the system they will... doesn't matter what system. By being selective about who we invite we should be able to avoid people of this mindset. I don't think anyone wants to have cherry pickers going with us so if they happen to get in I don't think they will last very long.
Ehon
(Z_z)
I liked the idea of a 4 week window--especially for those of us who have random times of busyness, for like work and family. However, reading through the thread and everyone's suggestions, I think I'm leaning towards the idea of an honor system. As many have mentioned, any system that is put into place will be abused--that's simply the nature of rules.
I believe that an honor system, however, would be less... hmm, "broken" than other ideas, such as points, because people don't feel the need to break it. A player can be as disrespectful as they want--but it'll show. The rest lies in the hands of us, the members, to ensure some sort of organized chaos.
When someone gets out of hand, it's up to us (and leadership) to say, "Hey, you just got something and Person B hasn't gotten anything for a while--do you really wanna do that and be an asshole?". If the answer is "Yes, yes I do because I rock and need to fill out some more manniquins (not directed at Fod
)", then they need to "rock" somewhere else and be replaced.
Rules are great and they keep the ones who will follow them in line, but the ones who will break the rules ... well, they'll just break them. It's up to the rest of us to keep them in line and/or kick them when they get out of hand.
I think my biggest fear (and disappointment with the old DX) was that people could CONSISTANTLY screw up, be rude, and let everyone down--and it was okay. In this case, especially if it's LS only, there can be mentoring and such, but there has to be a point when Person A has pissed off EVERYONE to a point that "that's enough."
So yeah, honor system--get what you put in with an understanding that everyone has a life and life doesn't fit a weekly schedule. Show up, kick ass, and share the rewards. With this being just in the LS, it'll be great to see Ultima reaping the rewards rather than the rest of Valefor.
(note: written during a meeting and probably really confusing to read; apologies in advance)
I believe that an honor system, however, would be less... hmm, "broken" than other ideas, such as points, because people don't feel the need to break it. A player can be as disrespectful as they want--but it'll show. The rest lies in the hands of us, the members, to ensure some sort of organized chaos.
When someone gets out of hand, it's up to us (and leadership) to say, "Hey, you just got something and Person B hasn't gotten anything for a while--do you really wanna do that and be an asshole?". If the answer is "Yes, yes I do because I rock and need to fill out some more manniquins (not directed at Fod
)", then they need to "rock" somewhere else and be replaced.Rules are great and they keep the ones who will follow them in line, but the ones who will break the rules ... well, they'll just break them. It's up to the rest of us to keep them in line and/or kick them when they get out of hand.
I think my biggest fear (and disappointment with the old DX) was that people could CONSISTANTLY screw up, be rude, and let everyone down--and it was okay. In this case, especially if it's LS only, there can be mentoring and such, but there has to be a point when Person A has pissed off EVERYONE to a point that "that's enough."
So yeah, honor system--get what you put in with an understanding that everyone has a life and life doesn't fit a weekly schedule. Show up, kick ass, and share the rewards. With this being just in the LS, it'll be great to see Ultima reaping the rewards rather than the rest of Valefor.
(note: written during a meeting and probably really confusing to read; apologies in advance)
Nekio
{Gilfinder}
How about instead of an actual "cycle", we just set the rule that if you have not attended 4 of the 8 previous runs, then you can not lot the current run.
Even if you can lot that run, you're still screwed for the following like 2-4 weeks if you've gone that long without attending.
We don't even need to record it or monitor it... make it an honor system with that single rule in place that will get you expelled from the shell if you're caught breaking it.
Even if you can lot that run, you're still screwed for the following like 2-4 weeks if you've gone that long without attending.
We don't even need to record it or monitor it... make it an honor system with that single rule in place that will get you expelled from the shell if you're caught breaking it.