Recently, I’ve seen a lot of players pushing for SQEX to add fewer jobs, or even stop adding them entirely.
I’m making this post because I find this ideology very concerning. I don’t think these players understand what they are asking for in the long term.
I understand the frustration in the community that the job design isn’t great. I think most endgame players can share this sentiment. The problem is, in our confusion, we end up blaming the wrong thing as the issue.
The problem with XIV jobs isn't the quantity of them. It’s always been, and still is, a design philosophy issue. Why does the quantity matter if the quality will always remain the same? It’s a design philosophy issue and they haven't proven otherwise. Every expansion they have had three years to design two jobs, and somehow they still release low effort, copy paste, borderline slop, like SGE and VPR. I'm not trying to offend players who main these jobs, I enjoy their aesthetics SO MUCH. But is it a coincidence they play extremely similar to SCH and RPR? Where's the creativity and innovation? Another frustrating point is how little thought goes into their design below their starting level. There’s countless examples of new jobs having frustrating and outdated design decisions, like VPR having a 2 button rotation at 50. Dancer not having dance partner until 60. My point is, why are we criticizing these newer jobs when they’re barely even given a fair chance?
I understand we all crave job reworks, and we are getting that in some capacity next expansion. Yoshida has stated that at the bare minimum all jobs will receive "a rework" to "make them feel more distinct."
Obviously the fact we are getting reworks, some form of change, is good. But why are we putting full confidence in these reworks being successful when we aren’t even sure the team understands how to fix them? As recently as Dawntrail, some jobs were “reworked” into homogenized rotations. Why is nobody talking about what happened with Dragoon? or Dark Knight? Black Mage? Their designs were gutted, and for what purpose exactly? Easier gameplay? Does having less dives better fit Dragoon's identity? Less oGCDS? We already have plenty of examples showing that focusing on reworks won’t matter if the underlying design philosophy is fundamentally flawed. Just look at Summoner, please.
They've ignored the two minute meta. They've ignored encounter design. They've ignored tanks having the same exact fundamental rotations. They've let the lowest DPS healer having by far the most interesting damage rotation. They've shoved double melee comps down our throats. These are core design philosophy issues that will not instantly be solved by adding less jobs.
In we want to compare games, every other mainstream MMO has MORE classes than XIV. And they still manage to maintain and identity while being viable. Despite knowing this, we’re somehow blaming new jobs are the issue? I don’t understand. I refuse.
If anything, the variety of jobs is the biggest thing keeping the game alive. I’d rather have 21 soulless, design constricted jobs than 13 soulless, design constricted jobs. At least the aesthetic, job quest, and lore of each job is pretty cool. This is why every job has a main. Should they have just not been added?
Time and time again, CBU3 has proven that the core issue with the game is their design philosophy. That how they view their own game is the problem. Job design, fight design, content cycle, rewards, homogenization, oversimplification. These are all design philosophy issues. It cannot be more crystal clear what the actual problem is.
Currently we have 4 tanks, 4 healers, and 13 DPS. Despite this, most players can agree that the DPS role has the best variety of jobs. A common complaint is that all four tanks feel the same, SGE is the same as SCH, and healers feel boring to play. If quantity is really the issue, why are the roles with the least amount of jobs the considered the most boring?
Last expansion we got three V&C dungeons. We gave the a lot of criticism and when we finally got one this expansion it was arguably a downgrade? They removed an entire difficulty, added another to “replace” it. The rewards did not change much. Is less content really better? No, the quality is the exact same. The end result even more DoA content because the community expected this. By the way, we still don't have a Variant Roulette somehow.
This expansion we got Occult Croissant. The general perception of OC is that this is slop content, largely wasted potential, and quite possibly a money laundering scheme. There's no way they released the 7.25 version of OC expecting it to be well received in any capacity.
I know this sounds harsh, but it’s the unfortunate reality. What I’m trying to say is this: if they care enough to make a fourth iteration of content that’s already been proven to be DoA within the same format, and if they care enough to add 25 new interesting subjobs to content like OC, despite it being widely seen as disappointing, then why does the community believe they shouldn't add two new jobs? If they cared as much about reworking jobs as they do about Occult Croissant and Merchant’s Tale, we could easily get two to three new jobs and meaningful reworks in 8.0. Hopefully, that’s still the direction they choose to take.
This next topic, I know many won’t understand this.
But at its core, this is a Final Fantasy game. Yoshida has said this himself numerous times.
The job system is the biggest draw of Final Fantasy. We have white mage fans, black mage fans, dark knight, dragoon fans, ninja fans. We have fans of every single job in FF, FFXIV is no exception to this.
To cease adding new jobs is a betrayal to Final Fantasy fans. It’s a betrayal to what Final Fantasy is. Especially since this game specifically pays homage to the FFIII to FFVI golden era of FF. I'm sure Yoshida knows this, as I believe he's a true final fantasy fan. Yoshida has learned from Dawntrail. He’s learned from XVI. He’s made mostly positive statements the entire expansion regarding the future of the game. He's finally ready to take up mantle Hajime Tabata has left for him. Yoshida said himself that adding less jobs isn’t ever an option. He has the data, and it clearly shows not adding new jobs will have a drastic impact on the player count. Why would anyone pay $70 for an expansion that has zero jobs on release? Players are already mad it took three years to get Beastmaster.
The job system is the core of XIV. This is a live service game, so the new jobs are naturally the biggest draw for each expansion. Every time an expansion is announced, the whole community loves predicting what the new jobs are using the hints we are given at fan fest and trailers. Why do we want this taken from us? Why do we want less as consumers? Every expansion, I love welcoming at least two new Final Fantasy inspired jobs to XIV.
Let’s say they start adding one job per expansion. Now instead of getting a new Tank every 7 years, we’ll get a new Tank every 14 years. 14 years for a new tank? Will most of us still be playing the game by then?
Next expansion, we’re obviously getting some some form of job reworks. 8.0 is a huge opportunity for them to make a real statement about the future of job design. And honestly, do you know what would be a statement at this upcoming fanfest? Announcing THREE NEW META CHANGING JOBS on top of the promised reworks.
To be specific, a physical ranged, tank, and healer. A physical ranged and tank are obvious picks for 8.0, but if we don’t get a healer in 8.x that is another eight-year gap for a new job in a role. Are we willing to wait that long? Adding a melee healer would fundamentally shake up the meta and change how raiding is approached. Players would need to adapt, and most importantly, it would make more people engage with a role they often consider boring.
or physical ranged, there is so many cool ideas I've seen the community discussing on forums, discord, and reddit. Literally any concept can work if they put care into it. The same goes for tank. We only have four tanks, there's so many original final fantasy jobs that fit the description as a Tank. And they've shown they can create new jobs entirely.
So the main goal of this: can we stop giving them free excuses to provide less? We've done that for so long now. The last thing we should be asking for is less content as consumers. Even if we get less jobs that isn’t a guarantee the job design drastically changes, which is what we actually need. We can do better than this. Our community is so confused with they actually want, it’s heartbreaking to see.
submitted by /u/CoolyKage
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I’m making this post because I find this ideology very concerning. I don’t think these players understand what they are asking for in the long term.
I understand the frustration in the community that the job design isn’t great. I think most endgame players can share this sentiment. The problem is, in our confusion, we end up blaming the wrong thing as the issue.
The problem with XIV jobs isn't the quantity of them. It’s always been, and still is, a design philosophy issue. Why does the quantity matter if the quality will always remain the same? It’s a design philosophy issue and they haven't proven otherwise. Every expansion they have had three years to design two jobs, and somehow they still release low effort, copy paste, borderline slop, like SGE and VPR. I'm not trying to offend players who main these jobs, I enjoy their aesthetics SO MUCH. But is it a coincidence they play extremely similar to SCH and RPR? Where's the creativity and innovation? Another frustrating point is how little thought goes into their design below their starting level. There’s countless examples of new jobs having frustrating and outdated design decisions, like VPR having a 2 button rotation at 50. Dancer not having dance partner until 60. My point is, why are we criticizing these newer jobs when they’re barely even given a fair chance?
I understand we all crave job reworks, and we are getting that in some capacity next expansion. Yoshida has stated that at the bare minimum all jobs will receive "a rework" to "make them feel more distinct."
Obviously the fact we are getting reworks, some form of change, is good. But why are we putting full confidence in these reworks being successful when we aren’t even sure the team understands how to fix them? As recently as Dawntrail, some jobs were “reworked” into homogenized rotations. Why is nobody talking about what happened with Dragoon? or Dark Knight? Black Mage? Their designs were gutted, and for what purpose exactly? Easier gameplay? Does having less dives better fit Dragoon's identity? Less oGCDS? We already have plenty of examples showing that focusing on reworks won’t matter if the underlying design philosophy is fundamentally flawed. Just look at Summoner, please.
They've ignored the two minute meta. They've ignored encounter design. They've ignored tanks having the same exact fundamental rotations. They've let the lowest DPS healer having by far the most interesting damage rotation. They've shoved double melee comps down our throats. These are core design philosophy issues that will not instantly be solved by adding less jobs.
In we want to compare games, every other mainstream MMO has MORE classes than XIV. And they still manage to maintain and identity while being viable. Despite knowing this, we’re somehow blaming new jobs are the issue? I don’t understand. I refuse.
If anything, the variety of jobs is the biggest thing keeping the game alive. I’d rather have 21 soulless, design constricted jobs than 13 soulless, design constricted jobs. At least the aesthetic, job quest, and lore of each job is pretty cool. This is why every job has a main. Should they have just not been added?
Time and time again, CBU3 has proven that the core issue with the game is their design philosophy. That how they view their own game is the problem. Job design, fight design, content cycle, rewards, homogenization, oversimplification. These are all design philosophy issues. It cannot be more crystal clear what the actual problem is.
Currently we have 4 tanks, 4 healers, and 13 DPS. Despite this, most players can agree that the DPS role has the best variety of jobs. A common complaint is that all four tanks feel the same, SGE is the same as SCH, and healers feel boring to play. If quantity is really the issue, why are the roles with the least amount of jobs the considered the most boring?
Last expansion we got three V&C dungeons. We gave the a lot of criticism and when we finally got one this expansion it was arguably a downgrade? They removed an entire difficulty, added another to “replace” it. The rewards did not change much. Is less content really better? No, the quality is the exact same. The end result even more DoA content because the community expected this. By the way, we still don't have a Variant Roulette somehow.
This expansion we got Occult Croissant. The general perception of OC is that this is slop content, largely wasted potential, and quite possibly a money laundering scheme. There's no way they released the 7.25 version of OC expecting it to be well received in any capacity.
I know this sounds harsh, but it’s the unfortunate reality. What I’m trying to say is this: if they care enough to make a fourth iteration of content that’s already been proven to be DoA within the same format, and if they care enough to add 25 new interesting subjobs to content like OC, despite it being widely seen as disappointing, then why does the community believe they shouldn't add two new jobs? If they cared as much about reworking jobs as they do about Occult Croissant and Merchant’s Tale, we could easily get two to three new jobs and meaningful reworks in 8.0. Hopefully, that’s still the direction they choose to take.
This next topic, I know many won’t understand this.
But at its core, this is a Final Fantasy game. Yoshida has said this himself numerous times.
The job system is the biggest draw of Final Fantasy. We have white mage fans, black mage fans, dark knight, dragoon fans, ninja fans. We have fans of every single job in FF, FFXIV is no exception to this.
To cease adding new jobs is a betrayal to Final Fantasy fans. It’s a betrayal to what Final Fantasy is. Especially since this game specifically pays homage to the FFIII to FFVI golden era of FF. I'm sure Yoshida knows this, as I believe he's a true final fantasy fan. Yoshida has learned from Dawntrail. He’s learned from XVI. He’s made mostly positive statements the entire expansion regarding the future of the game. He's finally ready to take up mantle Hajime Tabata has left for him. Yoshida said himself that adding less jobs isn’t ever an option. He has the data, and it clearly shows not adding new jobs will have a drastic impact on the player count. Why would anyone pay $70 for an expansion that has zero jobs on release? Players are already mad it took three years to get Beastmaster.
The job system is the core of XIV. This is a live service game, so the new jobs are naturally the biggest draw for each expansion. Every time an expansion is announced, the whole community loves predicting what the new jobs are using the hints we are given at fan fest and trailers. Why do we want this taken from us? Why do we want less as consumers? Every expansion, I love welcoming at least two new Final Fantasy inspired jobs to XIV.
Let’s say they start adding one job per expansion. Now instead of getting a new Tank every 7 years, we’ll get a new Tank every 14 years. 14 years for a new tank? Will most of us still be playing the game by then?
Next expansion, we’re obviously getting some some form of job reworks. 8.0 is a huge opportunity for them to make a real statement about the future of job design. And honestly, do you know what would be a statement at this upcoming fanfest? Announcing THREE NEW META CHANGING JOBS on top of the promised reworks.
To be specific, a physical ranged, tank, and healer. A physical ranged and tank are obvious picks for 8.0, but if we don’t get a healer in 8.x that is another eight-year gap for a new job in a role. Are we willing to wait that long? Adding a melee healer would fundamentally shake up the meta and change how raiding is approached. Players would need to adapt, and most importantly, it would make more people engage with a role they often consider boring.
or physical ranged, there is so many cool ideas I've seen the community discussing on forums, discord, and reddit. Literally any concept can work if they put care into it. The same goes for tank. We only have four tanks, there's so many original final fantasy jobs that fit the description as a Tank. And they've shown they can create new jobs entirely.
So the main goal of this: can we stop giving them free excuses to provide less? We've done that for so long now. The last thing we should be asking for is less content as consumers. Even if we get less jobs that isn’t a guarantee the job design drastically changes, which is what we actually need. We can do better than this. Our community is so confused with they actually want, it’s heartbreaking to see.
submitted by /u/CoolyKage
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...