While I know it's a dumb topic that isn't brought up often in regards to Party Finder, I've been noticing how the culture tends to be "Three Pulls and Disband" or "Five Pulls and Disband" when it comes to people trying to jump into High-End.
The reason behind these things is because of trying to match up to a prog point(that's either made by someone else, or yourself) and pushing to get to the end goal(completion). When it comes to High-End Content, the length of the content has to be considered, as well as how many phases there are.
Let's take your typical Savage Fight for instance: They last mainly anywhere from 9-11m depending on the fight. This trend most of the time works as an attempt to filter when it comes to normal PF in this type of content, but then we look at Door Boss Fights.
This is apparent from Exdeath, Kefka, Omega M/F, E12S, P4S, P8S, P12S, and more recently, M12S.
This then creates another wall and in regards to long fights with 120m to clear, you either reach the Checkpoint in so many pulls or you don't; then, it becomes how many pulls does it take to actually hit your target(or the PF Leader's target) and work on mechanics then for progression.
The problem though that I am seeing is that full disbanding parties without identifying the root cause of wipe after wipe after 7 or 8 pulls in actually harms your chances the later PF gets into a tier or fight because there may be good people in that party, and disbanding that means you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Some problems might be more apparent than others as people get used to identifying what's wrong, but in complex fights like M12S, it can create a headache to even prog properly whether it be getting past the Door Boss first, or merely just trying to get to Idyllic Dream.
The trend of this actually is a bigger negative to your personal progression than it seems, and I know the thought of "PF is holding me hostage for their own prog" but again what matters is addressing issues after a few pulls and then trying to find a solution. If they don't do it and adjust or ignore? Then it probably is time to go find a different party. If it's your own party, then removing the problem just means you'll have to sit in PF Prog a while longer.
This is heavily more prevalent with Ultimate Fights.
The most recent one, Kefka, is notorious for how long PF Prog takes given it's on content and at this point? Most of the good player population has moved past it after they cleared because of the problems presented, or because the fight design is bad in the fact that it is heavily Support and Mitigation focused.
This is where we do have to think about the runtime of fights, phases, and the fact that there aren't any checkpoints. We're not talking about DSR here in this regard, but moreso just how these kinds of fights are designed to go from beginning to end with no in-between to breathe outside of intermissions.
Taking a look at Kefka's runtime, it's at least 18m long, and going 12-15 minutes per pull means there's more effort to put forward and eats away at Instance Time. Wiping early to Forsaken or Black Hole is more prevalent in PF, mostly due to inconsistency or small mistakes happening; it's the same as a Savage Raid in this regard, right? WRONG.
The biggest and most important thing in regards to PFing that people miss a majority of the time is how long it takes to get a group to do the content. Sure, this is why statics exist, but if you're out of luck and are forced into PF? Then this is the main issue that most people make.
1 Food -> Disband
5 Pulls -> Disband
3 Pulls -> Disband
All these things leading to Disbands aren't logical because Disbanding to my understanding is done either out of frustration, or merely generalizing that the whole party is bad. This is why I think to solve this problem, communication is needed. It's a self-inflicted problem we've done to ourselves because we don't communicate. We just do.
And to make it simple for the folks that can't do math(yes, I'm looking at those who struggle with Math Bot or Math Mammet), here's what it looks like when you run 8 pulls potentially for Kefka in what's supposed to be a P4 Party:
- 1st Pull(3m due to Arrows)
- 2nd Pull(4m due to Forsaken Flub)
- 3rd Pull(8m due to Limit Cut Mistakes)
- 4th Pull(9m due to Earthquake Healer Overheal on Accretions)
- 5th Pull(10m due to Black Hole Screwups)
- 6th Pull(10m due to Black Hole Screwups or Lat/Long)
- 7th Pull(11m due to Damage Down from Body Slam, Deaths before Stompies)
- 8th Pull(11m due to not meeting Damage Check on Exdeath/Chaos)
That's 66m - half an instance since Kefka's Ultimate has a timer of 120m.
Usually by the 5th or 6th pull, the party leader's ready to just disband because they're frustrated that the party isn't pulling its weight, when in fact multiple small mistakes from different sources happen. More often than not, one person can be clean all the way through the 6th Pull, but mess up on the 7th when 2 other players messed up pulls 2, 3, and 4.
Other players might mess up Pulls 1, 5, and 6 due to accidents(even Party Lead in some cases). It can be weird and experience may vary when trying to make a comparison here, but for the most part identifying the problem and figuring out if a player is inconsistent at something or having issues doing another thing is worth discussing rather than just throwing out the whole party at 5 Pulls. Re-evaluating is just as important if it's being a consistent mistake, rather than a consistent mechanical resolution.
That said, I imagine there are folks getting ready to say "But they're wasting our time by wiping so much on P1/2/3! It's faster to get another party!"
While that can be true, the same can be said for dumping an entire party because by then you have to spend more time trying to reform.
"But I don't want the party to be held hostage by one person."
Then it's best practice to identify the issue and if the person can't fix it, remove them from the party and go back to PF to find a different person for the job. And yes, I know folks love to "Passport" folks for High-End Content at times through a different website - not saying it's a good practice, but generally it's better if folks can actually get in the content than being locked out of parties because "You need X% to join". And I get why some folks think percentage matters in terms of damage, but it does nothing but severely narrow your options than it is to get a person who can do mechanics and perhaps even deal out good damage if they're good at mechanics. Doesn't always work out that way, but it's something to note.
TLDR; Stop auto-disbanding after 3 or 5 pulls. Figure out the problem and find a solution instead of just throwing out the entire party if you want prog in any fight.
Continue reading...
The reason behind these things is because of trying to match up to a prog point(that's either made by someone else, or yourself) and pushing to get to the end goal(completion). When it comes to High-End Content, the length of the content has to be considered, as well as how many phases there are.
Let's take your typical Savage Fight for instance: They last mainly anywhere from 9-11m depending on the fight. This trend most of the time works as an attempt to filter when it comes to normal PF in this type of content, but then we look at Door Boss Fights.
This is apparent from Exdeath, Kefka, Omega M/F, E12S, P4S, P8S, P12S, and more recently, M12S.
This then creates another wall and in regards to long fights with 120m to clear, you either reach the Checkpoint in so many pulls or you don't; then, it becomes how many pulls does it take to actually hit your target(or the PF Leader's target) and work on mechanics then for progression.
The problem though that I am seeing is that full disbanding parties without identifying the root cause of wipe after wipe after 7 or 8 pulls in actually harms your chances the later PF gets into a tier or fight because there may be good people in that party, and disbanding that means you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Some problems might be more apparent than others as people get used to identifying what's wrong, but in complex fights like M12S, it can create a headache to even prog properly whether it be getting past the Door Boss first, or merely just trying to get to Idyllic Dream.
The trend of this actually is a bigger negative to your personal progression than it seems, and I know the thought of "PF is holding me hostage for their own prog" but again what matters is addressing issues after a few pulls and then trying to find a solution. If they don't do it and adjust or ignore? Then it probably is time to go find a different party. If it's your own party, then removing the problem just means you'll have to sit in PF Prog a while longer.
This is heavily more prevalent with Ultimate Fights.
The most recent one, Kefka, is notorious for how long PF Prog takes given it's on content and at this point? Most of the good player population has moved past it after they cleared because of the problems presented, or because the fight design is bad in the fact that it is heavily Support and Mitigation focused.
This is where we do have to think about the runtime of fights, phases, and the fact that there aren't any checkpoints. We're not talking about DSR here in this regard, but moreso just how these kinds of fights are designed to go from beginning to end with no in-between to breathe outside of intermissions.
Taking a look at Kefka's runtime, it's at least 18m long, and going 12-15 minutes per pull means there's more effort to put forward and eats away at Instance Time. Wiping early to Forsaken or Black Hole is more prevalent in PF, mostly due to inconsistency or small mistakes happening; it's the same as a Savage Raid in this regard, right? WRONG.
The biggest and most important thing in regards to PFing that people miss a majority of the time is how long it takes to get a group to do the content. Sure, this is why statics exist, but if you're out of luck and are forced into PF? Then this is the main issue that most people make.
1 Food -> Disband
5 Pulls -> Disband
3 Pulls -> Disband
All these things leading to Disbands aren't logical because Disbanding to my understanding is done either out of frustration, or merely generalizing that the whole party is bad. This is why I think to solve this problem, communication is needed. It's a self-inflicted problem we've done to ourselves because we don't communicate. We just do.
And to make it simple for the folks that can't do math(yes, I'm looking at those who struggle with Math Bot or Math Mammet), here's what it looks like when you run 8 pulls potentially for Kefka in what's supposed to be a P4 Party:
- 1st Pull(3m due to Arrows)
- 2nd Pull(4m due to Forsaken Flub)
- 3rd Pull(8m due to Limit Cut Mistakes)
- 4th Pull(9m due to Earthquake Healer Overheal on Accretions)
- 5th Pull(10m due to Black Hole Screwups)
- 6th Pull(10m due to Black Hole Screwups or Lat/Long)
- 7th Pull(11m due to Damage Down from Body Slam, Deaths before Stompies)
- 8th Pull(11m due to not meeting Damage Check on Exdeath/Chaos)
That's 66m - half an instance since Kefka's Ultimate has a timer of 120m.
Usually by the 5th or 6th pull, the party leader's ready to just disband because they're frustrated that the party isn't pulling its weight, when in fact multiple small mistakes from different sources happen. More often than not, one person can be clean all the way through the 6th Pull, but mess up on the 7th when 2 other players messed up pulls 2, 3, and 4.
Other players might mess up Pulls 1, 5, and 6 due to accidents(even Party Lead in some cases). It can be weird and experience may vary when trying to make a comparison here, but for the most part identifying the problem and figuring out if a player is inconsistent at something or having issues doing another thing is worth discussing rather than just throwing out the whole party at 5 Pulls. Re-evaluating is just as important if it's being a consistent mistake, rather than a consistent mechanical resolution.
That said, I imagine there are folks getting ready to say "But they're wasting our time by wiping so much on P1/2/3! It's faster to get another party!"
While that can be true, the same can be said for dumping an entire party because by then you have to spend more time trying to reform.
"But I don't want the party to be held hostage by one person."
Then it's best practice to identify the issue and if the person can't fix it, remove them from the party and go back to PF to find a different person for the job. And yes, I know folks love to "Passport" folks for High-End Content at times through a different website - not saying it's a good practice, but generally it's better if folks can actually get in the content than being locked out of parties because "You need X% to join". And I get why some folks think percentage matters in terms of damage, but it does nothing but severely narrow your options than it is to get a person who can do mechanics and perhaps even deal out good damage if they're good at mechanics. Doesn't always work out that way, but it's something to note.
TLDR; Stop auto-disbanding after 3 or 5 pulls. Figure out the problem and find a solution instead of just throwing out the entire party if you want prog in any fight.
Continue reading...