WILL IT FLY?
- Thread starter Jotaru
- Start date
No offense but if I am in the middle of the desert with no water I am not gonna care about the weight of some stupid pills. :tounge-3::flipblue:
you basically had it anyway
I forgot to mention that the pills from the odd weight bottle contain compressed water, but the pills in the other bottle contain poison that looks and smells exactly like water but will kill you instantly if ingested.
If that is the case then I am not gonna care if it takes me checking each bottle by itself on the scale or do whatever the trick is. :tounge-3:
I always forget the details for some reason when mentioning these problems. The scale is also programmed so that if it is used more than the minimum number of times, it starts shooting lighting bolts at you until you die.
And your scale actually is coin operated, requiring a quarter per use, and you only have one quarter left on you, because you spent your other money buying 10 bottles of 'water', but you got shafted by the dealer who cut you H2SO4 instead in 9 of those bottles!
Reminds me of that episode of Ren & Stimpy where they were stuck on the moon, lol.
If I am dumb enough to somehow in God's name end up in the middle of the desert with a scale that shoots lightning bolts at me and 9 bottles of poisonous pills that kill me instantly and one with compressed water I would be very happy to just pick a bottle at random and If I die instantly then I am out of missery or if I get the water I am then good. I'll take those odds.
Marooned!
Such an awesome episode.
Black Hole was another good one, where they travel through the black hole and find the mountain of missing socks.
This site didn't have marooned. But they did have 2/3 of the sci-fi episodes:
Black Hole: http://www.9thx.com/auction/AuctionDetail.do?auctionID=cfadcea9d04027835893c24cde5571b52
Space Madness: http://www.9thx.com/auction/AuctionDetail.do?auctionID=cfcd0773d0402783092cf72a55f6d4452
Too bad it's only part of the episodes.
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The only thing I remmeber is that the last bus to Jersey was there, and Stimpy had just spent his $1.25 on something totally stupid so they had no money to get on the bus, lol. So they ended up d ying or something because they were stuck on the moon and couldn't get back. If you can find that on Youtube post it, lol.
They imploded at the end so they would no longer exisit.
Varda
Clothcraft Cat
I worked out the pill answer over lunch and came back to find the answer already posted. ^_^;; It is one weighing, and if I'm right you could even expand the problem slightly by allowing for all bottles to be full of A pills (zero or one bottles full of B pills). The method that answers the original problem would also point out the case where all bottles were full of A type pills.
Btw, I liked the idea of testing density. Good thinking, even if that's not the intended solution. ^_^
Btw, I liked the idea of testing density. Good thinking, even if that's not the intended solution. ^_^
DeeDoubleOhEhm
Tiny Dancer
I died laughing as soon as you all started talking about poison pills in the desert and scales that shoot lightning.
Nekio
{Gilfinder}
So is this debate still going? lol
The answer isn't really a "debate", it's a flat out "no". There are two ways that machines achieve flight, for the most part, both of which require an upward force (lift) to counter the downward force (gravity). Thrust is simply the force that the propulsion (ie, propeller, rocket, or jet) generates to create lift, and does not need to be in the same direction:
1. Lift can be created by aiming thrust in the vertical direction. This occurs in rockets and missiles, and requires that the thrust be directed upward, since "lift" is only the upward component of any force. This does not apply to the debate here, since EVERY airplane uses horizontal thrust, not vertical. Propellers pull airplanes forward, and jets push them forward, and do not have any vertical component to them in any way. Think of it this way: if you have a plane on a runway with the jets intact and revved to full power, but no wings, will it ever fly? Of course not, and that's because the thrust is in a purely horizontal direction, and will not generate lift without wings.
2. Now for why this example will never produce flight. An airplane with the jets at full power, moving at 1000mph, and no wings WILL NOT FLY. As was stated before, this is because the thrust has zero vertical component, and will only move the plane horizontally. If the jets were pointed at a slight upward angle, be it on the plane itself, or by "aiming" the plane on a ramp, there would be a vertical component to the thrust and would produce enough lift to overcome gravity if the speeds were high enough. However, on the perfectly level runway in this example, this is not the case.
So, how do we make a plane fly by adding the wings? This requires some physics: wings generate lift as air moves over them. Without getting too complicated, as air moves past a wing, the shape results in a difference in the speed of the air moving over the wing compared to that moving under the wing. Differences in the movement of the air result in differences in pressure, with the air above the wing producing less pressure than that under the wing. So, in essence, you develop a slight vacuum above the wing, BUT ONLY WHEN AIR IS MOVING OVER THE WING. Jets do NOT move air over the wing... they simply provide thrust in a horizontal direction, just like a propeller, which moves the plane through the air, creating the vacuum above the wing, which creates lift.
So, in conclusion, if the plane is on a horizontal surface (ie. perfectly perpendicular to the force of gravity) and there is no movement over the wings, there will be zero lift and therefore no flight. Again, the jets do NOT move air over the wings and therefore cannot create lift unless the plane is "aimed" upwards, at which point it is no longer an airplane, it is simply a rocket. If the plane is not moving relative to the air, such as in this example, it simply will not fly, no matter how fast you get it going on the treadmill.
The answer isn't really a "debate", it's a flat out "no". There are two ways that machines achieve flight, for the most part, both of which require an upward force (lift) to counter the downward force (gravity). Thrust is simply the force that the propulsion (ie, propeller, rocket, or jet) generates to create lift, and does not need to be in the same direction:
1. Lift can be created by aiming thrust in the vertical direction. This occurs in rockets and missiles, and requires that the thrust be directed upward, since "lift" is only the upward component of any force. This does not apply to the debate here, since EVERY airplane uses horizontal thrust, not vertical. Propellers pull airplanes forward, and jets push them forward, and do not have any vertical component to them in any way. Think of it this way: if you have a plane on a runway with the jets intact and revved to full power, but no wings, will it ever fly? Of course not, and that's because the thrust is in a purely horizontal direction, and will not generate lift without wings.
2. Now for why this example will never produce flight. An airplane with the jets at full power, moving at 1000mph, and no wings WILL NOT FLY. As was stated before, this is because the thrust has zero vertical component, and will only move the plane horizontally. If the jets were pointed at a slight upward angle, be it on the plane itself, or by "aiming" the plane on a ramp, there would be a vertical component to the thrust and would produce enough lift to overcome gravity if the speeds were high enough. However, on the perfectly level runway in this example, this is not the case.
So, how do we make a plane fly by adding the wings? This requires some physics: wings generate lift as air moves over them. Without getting too complicated, as air moves past a wing, the shape results in a difference in the speed of the air moving over the wing compared to that moving under the wing. Differences in the movement of the air result in differences in pressure, with the air above the wing producing less pressure than that under the wing. So, in essence, you develop a slight vacuum above the wing, BUT ONLY WHEN AIR IS MOVING OVER THE WING. Jets do NOT move air over the wing... they simply provide thrust in a horizontal direction, just like a propeller, which moves the plane through the air, creating the vacuum above the wing, which creates lift.
So, in conclusion, if the plane is on a horizontal surface (ie. perfectly perpendicular to the force of gravity) and there is no movement over the wings, there will be zero lift and therefore no flight. Again, the jets do NOT move air over the wings and therefore cannot create lift unless the plane is "aimed" upwards, at which point it is no longer an airplane, it is simply a rocket. If the plane is not moving relative to the air, such as in this example, it simply will not fly, no matter how fast you get it going on the treadmill.
Hate to beat a dead horse, but as I've been saying all along, the plane would move ,_, Thus it would generate lift. Its because the wheels ignore the treadmill effect of the runway and just spin freely, basically reducing the wheel-ground interaction to nothing different than if it were on a regular runway, ice, etc. As you say, the jets push the airplane forward... the treadmill effect is pushing the runway the opposite direction, sure, but it won't stop an aircraft- if it would, airplanes couldn't take off on NORMAL runways, as even non-treadmill'd runways require the wheels to spin freely. This is the same thing, except the wheels end up spinning twice as fast (Speed of aircraft + equal speed of runway moving in opposite direction underneath the wheels) The key is really just realizing that the airplane doesn't stay stationary on the treadmill- it moves forward. Otherwise, you'd be 100% correct, if it didn't actually move.