Mention Tiamat/Jorgy, 10 ppl log off...

F

Fodder

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Ultima Legacy
Fodder's Rant:

To the members who continually send me tells about fighting the new dragons, I am sorry. I don't know what to do to get a raid together for this, nor do the other sacks. We have tried repeatedly to organize this, but at the mere mention of forming to fight the new dragons, suddenly 10+ people log off.:confused: I don't know what the fear of the dragons is, I think it would be a fun new challenge for us to explore. For whatever reason this opinion is not shared by everyone. I will not strong arm anyone into doing anything they don't want to as I am just not like that. Alu and Deva will not do so either. Maybe after we fill some more of the openings we have we will have enough people who want to push the envelope a bit and not do the same old thing time and again. If and when that time comes, I stand ready to offer said dragons some roast kitty.:shades02:
 
Oh my, Tiamat? Uhhhh, I'd love to come but I've got this brain tumor that I've really got to take care of, I've been putting it off long enough. :blue-grin



I'd honestly love to help you guys do these, but aside from "add parties" and a move in for a TH boost at the end of a fight I don't really know what else I could do (maybe that's all you want anyway?).

When I went the last two times we actually appeared to have a working strategy (on both dragons) and I actually thought I may see one of them drop to our hands. I'm pretty sure if a PST->EST based linkshell on Valefor is able to drop one of them, it's going to be us. Set a time and I'll try to be there, at a minimum maybe I can smack an enemy that would have normally wandered into the no-no area.

If we can set this up again I'd love to come (especially since there's a chance at Xolotl again, lol)
 
I'm very interested in fighting the dragons, but I'm highly against going for a slaughter. To go up to "just attempt and for fun" with 15-20 people is senseless and doesn't teach us strategy because there isn't enough people to go around to get a realistic sense for how the fight "should" go. It does, on the other hand, give us that experience of fighting them and their abilities, which for those who have partaken, is invaluable.

Beyond the fact that our linkshell very broken up in timezones and geographical locations, I'm not sure we'll ever see a time everyone is on and can participate, but, a recommendation: perhaps instead of a day or two's notice on /LSMES, post a thread on here where we can start forming parties, setting schedules, and getting that prelim work done that usually takes us hours to do in game. If we can find out who can be there and form the tank, the mage, and the support/adds parties, that cuts out a lot of the mindnumbing confusion and, maybe, would get more people interested.
 
Fod, me an' you have talked about this, and you know I'm 100% there ^_^

EXP can be made up, but there's going to be at least some people who complain about not wanting to do the dragons... Up until Nakama kills them first ~_^ i think we need to push ourselves; we can kill Kirin in almost half an hour, I think we can handle some dragons ^_^ I'm 100% there.
 
XP loss is no big deal unless it's for no reason... I die enough just exploring solo, but to go somewhere where we truly are not prepared is senseless. That's all I want evaluated--make sure we're prepared, have the items/meds we need, and are organized prior...
 
Pitlith's Rant:

My rant is somewhat similar to Fodder's. I will start off with a question. Why can we not get enough people together for the dragons at any point and time if we can easily get 30+ people to show up for Kirin? We set up a time in which to do Kirin and what happens? ,.. We go and do Kirin approx. around the time set forth on the /lsmes. Now, what I would like to see happen is that we, again, set forth a /lsmes, a week, 2 weeks, or even a month in advanced. That will eliminate the excuse, "we didnt know or didnt have enough time or enough notice".

I agree with Fodder saying that we cannot physically force people to attend these and aren't even going to try. I just want to ask a question. Is it truly the fact that we "need to recruit more people" or "we arent properly equipped" that is stopping us from doing a dragon? At what point are we going to draw this "line" in which we can say, "oh, I think the linkshell as a whole is properly equipped so now we can start doing dragons!" I am only mentioning the things in which i have heard as 'excuses'. I believe, as a whole, our LS is well equipped, even for these new dragons, at this very second. Sure, I could use an Astral Signa, Rangers could use a Kreigsbeil, PLDs can use Gigant mantle and Koenig Body..... but for us to say we cannot do something in this game because we dont have certain equipment really is only questioning our ability in doing a dragon in the first place.

I could go on, but refuse to. If we schedule a dragon on the weekends, given my schedule, i can make it. I hope others start seeing the dragons as something in which we can be the first NA LS on Valefore to defeat, before any other LS, Nakama, Nudawn, and all the others you can think of.

I am proud of our Linkshell and wish the best for us.

~Pitlith

P.S. Remember, a main reason a lot of the LS doesnt show up to Dragons is because they see someone else not going, then they see the next person not going, then the next, then the next. If we just dedicate ourselves to an event planned for dragons, we can, yes... we can have the proper amount of people for these.
 
I watched that video of Tiamat posted in another thread and was impressed by the dedication and excitement of their members for this fight. If you listen to them at the end, you hear people yelling into Vent/TS for someone to give them an R1 so they can get back into the fight.

Are we going to die fighting dragons, hell yes.
Are we going to take multiple R1s, hell yes.
Are we going to kick some dragon ass by doing so, hell yes.
And hell yes, 2 hours of exping is worth seeing Ultima overcome.
I want to be able to show up for Tiamat and see Moonlight scramble to try to beat us to pull, rather than them kicking back and saying "We'll kill after you die."
 
If I was around I'd help you guys. WTF is wrong with you? You haven't beaten the dragons? I mean come on, you guys are ULTIMA. You are THE NA HNMLS. Shit, you're going to let Nakama, or Synergywhateverthefuckournameisnow or someone else beat you to it? You are the oldest, most respected ls out there for NA and you are pussin out of a fight? I can't believe I'm hearing this. This is almost enough for me to come out of retirement just so I can yell at you people for being wimps. Exp is Exp, but fame is forever. Remember my saying....

"It is better to die a hero, than to live a coward"-Byrdman

Don't let me down.
 
Have to fall back on my well worn excuse for "lack of interest" ;_; Most of these exciting LS events are planned during times I have to work. I know one person (a lousy DRK at that) won't make a difference, but the only thing holding me back personally is my crappy work schedule. Ever since Kirin was moved to Sunday it's been the only time I've gotten to fight him thanks to a 24hour work day on Saturday to Sunday. I'd love to do Genbu, Suzaku etc.. but with my work schedule it's just not going to happen. If the dragon fights are planned for a day when I can be there, then you better believe I will be.
 
From what I see some people are very intrested in killing these dragons, but I also know A LOT of people just dont care about them or maybe think xp loss aint worth it idk. Think you might wanna try and find out (poll maybe?) how many people actually are intrested in this or if not why not.

Personally I'd like to fight/try them at least once but as a LS, not as teamup with anyone, this should be something we as Ultima should accomplish
Tho since we talking a 3h+ fight that usually start @3-4am CET I doubt thats gonna happen anytime soon for me, starting @6pm EST would help for this, but I guess we dont have enough NA members on at that time, oh well just my 2 cents this ... maybe in the coming holidays.
 
ok, im gonna be brutally honest here, its 5 in the morning and im writing this so ya.

I really want to kill these dragons as everyone probably knows, I couldnt care less about exp loss.

What I do care about however is time. Last time we fought Tiamat we stood there for at least an hour and a half, probably longer, for a fight that lasted about a minute and a half. Then when we died, everyone was like. Meh /goodbye. Now whenever I hear "Lets go fight dragons" It translates to me as, "Lets go waste 2 hours of everyones time."

Dont flame me or anything, I am just trying to be honest. Ill be there with you guys every time, but I wanna actually do more than stand there.
 
I think Moranna hit it a bit... We can spend 3-8 hours fighting Tiamat and Jorugmand with whatever chance of winning, and, frankly, beyond the Gaiters for WHMs, very crappy drops, or, we can fight Gods that we know we can spawn and kill for 3-8 hours and better equip the entire LS with god gears and abjurations.

So, perhaps that is a better "excuse" than the fact that I don't believe we're all together prepared (not equipment, don't limit the definition, I meant as a team/group), but that, frankly, except that I'd love to see the WHMs zooming around, they really don't drop anything beneficial and I can see time spent better elsewhere.
 
hmm I wanna try and hit a couple separate replies here. I guess the thing that got me the most is - do we really care what the "benefit" of killing these dragons is? To be brutally honest the drops from them are a joke, given the effort needed to beat them. But I was never under the impression that we fight HNMs after making a mathematical cost-benefit analysis.... doesn't anyone else wanna see that great orange dragon fall to the power of our swords and spells? That's the whole point.... We fight turtle with 4 people, we beat Kirin easily and with confidence, we finally took down the only +1 land god we hadn't beaten, Nidhogg! So what's left now? Farm Kirin like he's just another bee in Rolanberry Fields? Getting equipment for our members is nice, and important, but moreso I'd like to push our boundaries as an LS. What's the fun in the game without some excitement?^^ Finally pulling Nidhogg and nuking him til he ate me - that's fun^^ taking 9 people to fight Xolotl - that's some real fun lol. Gathering together as a linkshell and ruining Tiamat good - now that's just the best^^.

Um also I wanted to touch on the syndrome people seem to have where they don't want to go until 30 people are already there. Just go, please, go go go. That's pretty much all there is to that lol. Anyways, back to turtle w timer almost up.

-benny
 
I dont freaking care about the drops... great if I get gaiters one day, but thats not the point... I want the title and respect that goes with dropping Tiamat and Jorgy.

I think everyone knows my position on EXP loss, I have been level 70-71 for three months now. With the exp I have gained and loss, I could have been 75 by now... But I have fun doing the gods and whatever else we do.

Just do it...
 
I guess the thing that got me the most is - do we really care what the "benefit" of killing these dragons is?
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Dont get me wrong here. drops arent an issue at all, couldnt care less. This is the challenge of actually doing something we havent done before, like KS99 BCs for example.

Um also I wanted to touch on the syndrome people seem to have where they don't want to go until 30 people are already there.
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Not specifically related to these dragons, but if I look at my job ... last 8-10 times I came up for Fafnir I got to tank it once. Would be nice if we could maybe rotate who were in tankparty now and again.
 
Morrana said:
Not specifically related to these dragons, but if I look at my job ... last 8-10 times I came up for Fafnir I got to tank it once. Would be nice if we could maybe rotate who were in tankparty now and again.
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I had the pleasure of watching ML take down Tiamat.... they have their parties setup as squads... when one squad died or was out of MP, that entire group as a whole would depart from Tiamat and rest. The next squad would run in as the other was leaving. During the rest/raise time, the middle group would be working on Elementals and corses.

So, we would need at least 4-5 tanks... so getting in the fight shouldnt be a problem. On a side note, when Tiamat flew... everyone would run away except the primary tank at the time and and specified mages.

ML did consistent damage, timing SMN: Spinning Dive, BLM: Water IV, SAM: Tachi-Gekko --- That was pretty much about it outside the regular tanking.

Tiamat is easy when you have a well structured group and are coordinated. Yes, death is inevetiable, but who cares.
 
I'd really like to kill these dragons actually. I think we did reasonably well during the Tiamat fight, and I noticed a few things, but I don't know if they can be changed or not.

I think we need more WHMs and set-up a Cure V order on a tank, I'm not a WHM so I don't know if this will work, but it will save a lot of MP because I noticed a few Cure Vs last time going off healing 100HP each. (We have paralyze-buddies, aerial armour order, so why not have a Cure V order on a tank? i.e. Aangeliceus and Jazmine on Aluciont; Meli and Loser on Garret. [Just an example with the first WHMs that came to mind]). Two options come to mind for Cure V pairings, either WHM1 uses Cure V and then WHM2 uses Cure V and rotate, or WHM1 uses Cure V while WHM2 is resting near add PT, and when WHM1 runs out of MP, WHM2 does the job of WHM1 and WHM1 rests near the add PT. I'm thinking the latter will be more effective.

RNGs can shoot Tiamat without getting hit by Firaga III and the touchdown attack. However, you need to be just in range and tapping a direction will put you out of range.

I think we need more practice subbing in melee for these big dragons. I'm sure Tiamat will not spike if the Paladins have enough hate.
 
I'll be honest and agree with benny, for the drops they give there is never going to be a cost-benefit analysis that makes them "worth the time" but that's really beside the point.

All those who came to Tiamat and Jorm can vouch that we did pretty well and what killed us, especially on Tiamat was straight numbers, he wore down our MP and HP slowly and there was no way around it. That's why we gave up and left him after realizing we just didn't have the manpower to last him out.

If you want a real benefit we would get from killing these imagine the amount of respect we would get on our server from both other NA as well as JP shells for taking down these HNMs. We set the pace on a lot of things and discluding JP shells such as Sakura, ML, NH I think only TheNakama is really as strong a shell as us and as far along as we are. Taking any one of these dragons down would be a big stepping stone for us far superior to any piece of equipment they may drop.

As for not being properly equipped and qualms of that nature I think that's untrue. I'll gladly tank Tiamat in my full set of AF1 if that's what it takes to prove we don't NEED full sets of Koenig for our Pld to be able to fight these dragons, which isn't to say Koenig wouldn't help but it's not required. My first day in the shell I was lvl. 72 and tanked every god and kited Kirin in nothing more than my AF1 with almost no truly respectable +HP gear and I didn't even feel it to be a handicap.

Another possibility to mention, if we are going to have a lot of trouble getting enough people interested then why not invite Nakama to do one of the fights with us and then take those that were truly interested in taking it down. I don't know if this would be a good idea or not but it's a possible way around attendance issues to these fights. I know some in the shell dislike some of the members of Nakama but by and large we tend to get along with them and they'd probably be willing if we wanted it as an option. Personally I'd like to see us get the participation to do it without joining with another shell to prove we are capable, because we are.
 
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