Dynamis and Spit

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Arafea said:
think the forum is ultima dynamis and is closed to outside people? this is Ultima dynamis, unless i was misinformed. ultima members can bring a friend?

-ara
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You're making it too black and white. We had fairly stringent entrance guidelines for Negatron too. Though, I would have liked to have closed most of the Negatron forums too. In the beginning, Negatron was 90%+ Ultima members. It only really became an open ls once everyone in Ultima stopped coming.

Besides, this issue personally affects you. you don't have objectivity regardless of any point I or anyone else makes.
 
I'm with Ara and Furax on this. As Lexa said, Ultima members should be held a higher standard. That includes who we associate with. I highly doubt those turning a blind eye to Spit's actions would be just as content to let a known gilseller into Amitlu, simply because they play their job well. Similarly, I would hope that blatant and intentionally hurtful racism would be more frowned upon than annoying a bunch of online gamers in a virtual world.

Now, I won't make a fuss about it. It's not my decision to make, and Spit's actions aren't grounds for Heie or Yels to break his Dynamis pearl. If the members want him there, then it's the sacs' obligation to support the mass's decision. My underlying question is:

Honestly, why the hell do you want him there?
 
I see your point Ticket, but I also don't like to hang everyone's dirty laundry out for the world to see. Going forward I will post a concise statement when people are removed from the shell.
 
Fodder said:
I see your point Ticket, but I also don't like to hang everyone's dirty laundry out for the world to see. Going forward I will post a concise statement when people are removed from the shell.
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Yeah, I don't want to see a novel on it. With Yaeko, we knew exactly what happened though and when. Some people are just realizing Spit is gone today from reading this thread.
 
I actually agree with Eticket. This isn't a decision people can make without knowing what Spit did in the first place to get booted. I guess I'm in agreement with what seems to be a consensus that "booted from Ultima =/= booted from Amlitu." I truly hope that if people knew what he did, they wouldn't look the other way.
 
to eticket- the nega had 4-5 ultima members and 6 outside. and we clearing stated this wasnt ultima limbus. our forum was open for a reason. the only ultima peeps that were in it where peeps that made it and could not make ultima limbus times. and seriously, we are arguing over nega and tying that to spit? we are friends and i gotta say thats a weak point lol.

-ara
 
You're right. None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. That in itself was one of the points I was trying to make with the disclosure post and others.

Spit wasn't kicked for being an asshole. He was kicked for using a racial slur. Whether there was malice or not behind it, who knows? It may have just been something inexcusably stupid that got said in a heated moment. Regardless, that particular comment was what he got kicked for. That is what people need to decide on. Bringing up all the 'he was mean to me' stuff just clouds the issue. I agree it has some bearing, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor for people.
 
think i was trying to give clearity to how he treats people, using my personal examples. and i think i made it clear was many people that he did this to, not just me. and he has done many more examples of what he was kicked for. he just did it to the wrong person and got kicked.

-ara
 
Yes, but anyone reading that who didn't know specifically what happened may have thought 'oh that's just spit being spit'... or whatever.
 
well ill say this, he got kicked. i dont think the sacks would remove him if it was a joke. i know they had a solid reason. it was in malice and thus, GTFO of ultima.

-ara
 
I want him there because he gave an indication that yes, he can indeed hold his tongue and be civil, on Wednesday.

Re: Furax's comment about being desperate for people - I want him there because of my 145 single Beaucedine, which I had to sell a 100 to be able to afford to sponsor because no other sponsors wanted to because "northlands suck," and which I still ended up losing gil on, but which I have made no complaints about. I want him there because of my 16 member Jeuno-sponsorship, which while didn't result in a loss for me, did fail to meet the 300-single limit (only city sponsor this has happened to), which I also made no complaints about.

In a low-man shell, even one person makes a well of a difference.

That being said, I'm starting to wonder if it's worth letting him back in over all this drama. I'm thoroughly disappointed that people can't be adults about this.
 
well sorry you dont think im acting like an adult, still love ya though. but i treat people how they deserve to be treated. he wants to be a racist asshole, ill treat him as such.

-ara
 
I understand where you are coming from on the sponsorship thing lex, but there are options out there we could pursue if you think losing this 1 person would mean a loss of Currency. Let's come up with 1 more person that we would all agree on in inviting to go with us who is skilled/nice/respectful/etcetcetc.
 
There's being a asshole sometimes and then theres hurting multiple ppl constantly over a period of time. Anyone can be a asshole and ppl will shrug it off but he hurt a great deal of ppl and sadly one person in dyna might hurt the whole shell. honestly try to reach out to more friends who you think is more deserving to come with us to the runs than one person who seriously cant control his assholeness.
 
I think Spit proved on Wednesday that he is indeed able to control his asshattery. I don't think he bothered to in the past, and look where that got him. Reaching out for other friends more deserving to come - well, I guess there's always the 16 people who showed for Jeuno (at least 3 of which were outside-Ultima invitees).

Most of my friends list, besides Spit, is either in Ultima or CTB, and CTB does their own dynamis, so I can't be stealing people from there. As it is, there are several Ultima members on my friends list who goes with other dynamis shells.

The few friends I have outside of either shell, are Norwegian and as such can't do dynamis that starts at 2:30am when they have lives the next morning.

I feel the need to state again, though, that I'm no longer sure it's worth it, due to all this drama. I think it is funny, though, that this dramatic discussion never happened while Spit was actually in the shell, but as soon as he's been kicked, nobody has any qualms about saying what they really feel about him. In any regards, I'm done defending him, as there clearly will not be any sort of agreement formed over this. I suspect the lack of resolution will lead Heie and Yels to boot him from the shell, and if that becomes the result, I'm fine with it.
 
well we are encouraged to hold our tongues about other ls members. so we do outta respect to the sacks. but once that line is crossed, ofcourse the floodgates open. i hope that heie and yels will do whats in the best interest of their ls mates and not of one person who is a repeat offender.

-ara
 
From my viewpoint, Lexa, this has nothing to do with Spit being kicked from Ultima. Out of principle, I don't tolerate biggots. It may not be a big deal to you, but it certainly is to many members of Amlitu, and I'm sure it's a big deal to the person at the other end of the slur. Using that word in the states is much more than an insult, it's a psychological attack meant to degrade and desecrate who that person is and the history of their race.
 
I'm well aware of it, as I hate half the words I've heard him spout, and I've been on the receiving end of them myself (and worse) on more than one occasion. It's got nothing to do with cultural differences or me being too naive to understand how things work in America.
 
I think there will be some sort of discussion between Ultima sacks, Heie and Yels in regards to this. I form no personal opinion of Spit one way or the other, but I did witness Spit target a member last dynamis in a negative way which leads me to believe he was hoping to provoke that person. He was not as well behaved as some may seem to believe.
 
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