Amitlu Discussion

[yelsaewnor]

i personally dont like these comments you guys are making about watching people. rubs me the wrong way. but it is your shell so run as you please. but hey, could show a little more trust in your ls mates and not keep stats on attendance. just my 2 cents.

-ara

No one is being judged/penalized based on how many runs they attend. However due to the great fluctuations in attendance depending which run we are doing we have not been able to get clears for Eticket's wife or Haku's invitees as well as a few other invitees. Clears for these people, who have been coming regularly, would be a great benefit to us in our other runs. And aside from that, the more mobs we are able to kill the better it is for everyone, whether you are getting a better chance at AF or at currency from the sponsor. So I am trying to find the reasons for these attendance fluctuations so that if there is something that could be done to help those people attend it can be done, for the overall improvement of the shell.

 

[yelsaewnor]

Really can't compare SOAP to this shell.

I agree. That was what I was getting at when I said that we should not be striving to be on par with SOAP. IMO we should address the problems individually as they come up and not in comparison with SOAP. I see the repeated low attendance as a problem so I thought that opening the floor to the people having trouble attending was an appropriate way to address it.

 

[Eticket]

No one is being judged/penalized based on how many runs they attend. However due to the great fluctuations in attendance depending which run we are doing we have not been able to get clears for Eticket's wife or Haku's invitees as well as a few other invitees. Clears for these people, who have been coming regularly, would be a great benefit to us in our other runs. And aside from that, the more mobs we are able to kill the better it is for everyone, whether you are getting a better chance at AF or at currency from the sponsor. So I am trying to find the reasons for these attendance fluctuations so that if there is something that could be done to help those people attend it can be done, for the overall improvement of the shell.

This.

People need to stop feeling persecuted or hunted or whatever. No one is being accused of cherry picking. In fact I don't want to see that term ever again. No one is being told they can't lot because of attendance. Yes, Yel tracks attendance but it's just to keep track of overall numbers.

No one is saying you have to be at every run. Everyone understands people have lives and shit they have to attend to. Dynamis is a bitch sometimes and everyone understands if someone just says 'fuck it, I don't want to go tonight'. However, more then half of the people in the shell missing more than half of the runs is pretty sad. We should be better than that.

However, with that said, you can understand if there may be a little confusion or resentment when we can't pull off a city clear, only to switch back into Ultima and see 10 people or more who would have been there if it was a Xarc run. I understand if people have statics or other commitments, heck I miss sky/sea stuff a lot with my Nyzul runs.

Like Def said, the more rules you add, the more you tend to alienate people. This shell has less rules and a more open system then SOAP or DX ever did, yet everyone keeps bringing up rules and shit that aren't even in place. Every added rule that's been brought up has been shot down. Yet, there's a spectre that the ls is more oppressive then it is... so people don't show up.... so we talk about people not showing up... which makes more people not show up.... etc etc

All Yel is trying to figure out is what we can do to get more people in the runs. There's no easy answer though.

City runs = more currency and clears for newbies, but boring as hell for vets

Northlands = fancy gears, but less currency and not everyone has access

 

[Sojourn]

I am one of the first people to say RL > game. Please don't put RL things aside so you can come to dynamis because you think you will get kicked or get a bad rep or anything like that.

This. However I don't know that people should feel that they have to explain to anyone why they were gone. I can understand it being a considerate thing to do, but not necessary. Like if Coice is going out on a date with his boyfriend later that night but he needs to buy 10lbs of water based lube, then I don't think he should have to tell you that or make up a story to cover the fact that he is in fact a gigantic homosexual.

I think a simple "I won't be able to come tonight (or tomorrow, whatever) due to RL plans" should suffice. Not that you were asking for more than that...it's just some people are thinking very Nazi about all of this stuff.

 

[Heie]

Just sending any one of the sacs a tell saying I can't get on cause of RL things is more then enough info for me. I do not need to know the details as everyones RL is as private as they want it to be. All I ask is that people be curtious and keep us informed on whats going on so we can make the best decisions for the run/ls.

Now if there is an extended reason why someone can't make a run (like 3 weeks in a row or something) a brief reason why is enough. Like my computer isn't working or so and so in my family uses the computer during that time or Coice's boy friend can only go out on wednesday nights cause of work and thats the only time they can spend time together. (Signifcant other is only free that night is enough.) or something of the like so we are aware if someone will miss a bulk set of runs. {all this is just some examples}

 

[defiant]

Windy clear is possible low man and be more then happy to help depending if i have the day off. Just don't expect to have the same amount of currency/af because it is a much more difficult zone and will require a bit of sacing with our numbers. But it's not impossible.

Only thing i can suggest is make one of the windy runs a clear so people who need it know in advance and can try be there for it.

Are there other things we can do to make mobs more squishy? Sure add a BLU if someone has one. They have some great spells and i can't remember them all but AOE defense down, sleep, etc... JP ls i ran with had a BLUE who would focus on all these buffs and i know it impressed me =p

Can also go for a early clear on Beau if we have someone hold a glass outside. That way we can re-enter again but just have to wait for super weak to wear. But being Beau there is distance to travel to get anywhere so really won't be the full 20 minutes of sitting around waiting.

PS. If i'm online it's possible it's Alucnoob or Coice as i'm at work. Most people know this anyways

 

[Heie]

Moved the discussion that was in the sign up thread to here.

 

[Zeri]

I think the problem here is the impression caused by this statement:

Dynamis is a bitch sometimes and everyone understands if someone just says 'fuck it, I don't want to go tonight'.

I mean, it's twice a week. You get tired of it. I ran into that a lot where I'd go for a several weeks, then take a couple weeks off just from getting sick of it. Now I just don't go at all because 1) If you got started late I'd have to leave early, so I'm pretty useless to you. 2) If I am online but on my "fuck, I haven't got the patience for it tonight" hiatus, I'd get bitched out and asked not to come back. If I'm going to end up where I started (not going at all), I may as well keep my reputation intact.

So this thread really has nothing to do with me, but I read it as it pops orange with new updates. Thought I'd put in my 2 gil as someone who can help out but doesn't. I'm not too interested in AF, but still don't want people to slap a label on me for being a part-time attendee.

 

[yelsaewnor]

The statement about picking which runs to attend refers to picking Xarc runs only for instance. It does not refer to attending only some of the runs because you are tired of dynamis and wish to take a break.

As far as leaving early, as long as you let one of the sacs know before the run so that we can plan on it (don't have you as the only whm for the tank pt for instance) there is no problem.

As Eticket was saying I think people expect this shell to be more oppressive than it is. We are fairly flexible, we just do not want to be used because of this flexiblity. (I.E. people only coming to the runs where they want AF because there is no system in effect to prevent this)

From what you described Zeri, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you coming. On the contrary we would welcome the help and the company. If you think that you need a break and you are online during the gather time please let one of the sacs know though so that we are not counting on you coming when organizing parties. Thanks for posting glad that this could be addressed. Hope more people post thier reasoning so we can try to do something to make it easier for them to attend.

 

[Heie]

I'd get bitched out and asked not to come back.

Not a single person has been bitched out over attendance. We have been bitching about the over all situation with attendance but no one has been singled out.

What we are worried about is people using us to get AF and not come to another run till they need more AF. That is something we don't want. Honestly if someone could only be in dynamis for one hour out of the whole month and we are aware of that situation I have no problem with someone doing that. And would make sure they are not bitched out by anyone cause they are doing all they can to help out.

 

[Zeri]

Thank you both for your well put replies. Ultimately it's a matter of impression. As you've noted Heie, it hasn't happened at all... yet. And no one wants to be the first either. No one wants to be "that guy" asked not to come back because they're suspected of picking and choosing. Since this is an ultima dynamis group, it will inevitably affect what the rest of the shell thinks of you outside dynamis too.

So not wanting to risk getting asked to leave Ultima entirely, or explaining the situation to you and Yel but still have everyone else thinking you're a loot whore, people only come if they know they can make a commitment, or abstain entirely. It becomes all or nothing, which given the summer situation with lots of us just kicking back... defaults to nothing.

My recommendation would be to remove all public notice of it, and just take it on a case by case basis since you're taking attendance anyway. This is just ultima + friends so it's a pretty small group. If you notice someone who seems to be using the LS for themselves and not contributing, take it up in /tell and find out what's going on. But to place something about it in rules perpetuates the impression people are getting, seeming like an axe over their heads if can't attend enough.

All that said, Bastok on Sunday eh? That's a fun town. I could use some revenge for all the quadavs in campaign kicking my ass. If I'm there at 8 can I get a pearl?

 

[Sojourn]

You people are taking this way over the fucking edge. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE? That's right. Just fucking come when you can, you are not going to get kicked for attending when you can and not attending when you can't or have other plans. That isn't cherry picking.

Maybe i'll start coming to xarc and beuc runs only to see how long it takes me to get kicked, then that will be your example. WOULD THAT MAKE EVERYONE FEEL BETTER?

 

[Arafea]

WHAT DO YOOOOOOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE???

-ara

 

[onorok]

Once they add BLU relic and some CoP runs get added to the schedule, I'll be around to help out a bit more. To be honest, I am burned out and bored of Dynamis after doing it for over 3 years. But by the time the new items get added, I should have MNK 70+ as well.

 

[Zeri]

No one wants to be "that guy"...

Maybe i'll start coming to xarc and beuc runs only to see how long it takes me to get kicked

I stand corrected. <3 you Souj~~~~~~~

 

[Heie]

You people are taking this way over the fucking edge. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE? That's right. Just fucking come when you can, you are not going to get kicked for attending when you can and not attending when you can't or have other plans. That isn't cherry picking.

Maybe i'll start coming to xarc and beuc runs only to see how long it takes me to get kicked, then that will be your example. WOULD THAT MAKE EVERYONE FEEL BETTER?

Soj i'll pay for the hourglass and you can have all the currency once the price drops if you want just for saying what you did.

 

[Eticket]

Which is in direct conflict with this statement:

It really isn't though. My comment was more about someone just not wanting to go in general one or two nights a month and had nothing to do with pre-meditating which zones they would do or wouldn't do week in and week out.

There's a vast difference between impulse and habit. The problem is, people are thinking that both of those are one in the same and they really aren't. Even then, I would rather have someone come and help twice a month then never come at all out of fear of retribution.

 

[Sojourn]

I will allow you to fund my relic, sir.

 

[yelsaewnor]

All that said, Bastok on Sunday eh? That's a fun town. I could use some revenge for all the quadavs in campaign kicking my ass. If I'm there at 8 can I get a pearl?

Of course you can get a pearl , try to be there by 7:30 if you can. There are usually enough on the shell by 7:40-:50 to start making pts. Ideally we would like to enter at 8.

 

[Heie]

It really isn't though. My comment was more about someone just not wanting to go in general one or two nights a month and had nothing to do with pre-meditating which zones they would do or wouldn't do week in and week out.

There's a vast difference between impulse and habit. The problem is, people are thinking that both of those are one in the same and they really aren't. Even then, I would rather have someone come and help twice a month then never come at all out of fear of retribution.

EXACTLY