Treasure Hunter

M

Mane

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http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25807

So needing hate on every mob to generate higher returns it seems logical the most effective means would simply be to have thieves resting near all the slept mobs.

I am perfectly willing to rest nonstop our next Dyna run Gar-bear and help through my rampant and unrepentent afk-ness.

I'd do that for y'all outta the kindness of my own black heart:icecream:
 
Pretty sure that TH wouldnt kick in from resting. You do have to conduct some kind of action on a mob. Yes you may get aggro or hate from a mob while resting, but it isnt the same. The Thf/Brd suggestion spamming horde made more sense honestly. What lvl is horde lullaby?
 
Could just have a Thf or two with the job of ranged attacking all statues while they are being killed.

Melee mobs are easily handled for TH by plenty of Thf beating on them.
 
Gunman said:
Pretty sure that TH wouldnt kick in from resting. You do have to conduct some kind of action on a mob. Yes you may get aggro or hate from a mob while resting, but it isnt the same.
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It could very easily be the same. You can get hate on a mob without ever actually touching it, and not just by resting. Whms curing someone on the hate list will get hate. Mages casting around magic-aggro mobs will get hate.

And yes, resting will get hate. Pretty much every mage has gotten smacked at one time or another during a pull just for resting. There have been tests demonstrating that a person using /heal will pull hate off of someone who has the same amount of hate initially.

It seems hard to justify that this is a different type of hate than hitting a mob (unlike linked hate, which is trivial to demonstrate by pet pulling). If you can come up with an experiment to show it's different, we'll be happy to listen. ^_^ Until then, I think most mages will agree based on experience that they're the same.

And now that that's all been said, I'd hate to see thfs in Dynamis just healing all the time for TH purposes. ^_^;; If we're going to try this out, I like the ranged attack idea. /brd does have Horde Lullaby, but aside from getting more hate than you want early in a battle (cast it on a pull, and the 99.9% that resist it will come pummel you), it's worthless for thf. Same with /blm (unless we need extra Tractoring ^_~).
 
Back when my CoP static was doing the airship fight, our plan for the Mammets was for the Ninja to run in, catch sight aggro on them all and tank them, leaving me to keep him alive, hate-free, while the rest of our group killed them one by one. Well, on our 2nd attempt, the Ninja ran in, hit the wrong button, and accidentally /healed as he ran up to the Mammets. Needless to say, my first Cure III pulled every single one of them onto me. I promptly died, and everyone "gfto'd".

In light of this, I'd have to say that /healing does in fact act upon the enemy.
 
I believe they already stated that it's more than just being on the hate queue, but you actually have to perform an 'action' on the mob. So resting, or healing someone on the hate queue just wont cut it.
 
Shadowedge said:
Back when my CoP static was doing the airship fight, our plan for the Mammets was for the Ninja to run in, catch sight aggro on them all and tank them, leaving me to keep him alive, hate-free, while the rest of our group killed them one by one. Well, on our 2nd attempt, the Ninja ran in, hit the wrong button, and accidentally /healed as he ran up to the Mammets. Needless to say, my first Cure III pulled every single one of them onto me. I promptly died, and everyone "gfto'd".

In light of this, I'd have to say that /healing does in fact act upon the enemy.
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BC hate is different than normal hate.
 
Talfus said:
I heard that sleepga has a wider range than lullaby? THF/BLM would work pretty well methinks.
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If you try it on pulls, you're still going to have the problem that they'll all resist the spell. They'll stop chasing the pulling thief and come kill the stationary one that mumbled some weird magic spell in their direction.

Not to mention you'll need MP. I don't think you'll be high on the rdm's refresh priority list. ^_^;; And remember all the times you complained that the brd landed ballad on you instead of a melee buff? Wait a minute, thf/blm will need to rest for mp... and they can test out resting hate! ^_~
 
To give an example:
If i rest and get hate on a mob, and it beats on me over and over. Then I spame cure 4 myself until i'm out of mp, my hate should be strong correct? If someone else comes up after that and casts dia on that mob it will pull the mob off of me. This would not happen if I was truly in the hate queue. Test it out, this will prove it. Sac pulling is another example. If someone aggros a mob, then I flash it and die, that mob will not go looking for the original person who aggro'd it. TH would act in the same way. You are not truly in the hate queue until you perform an actual action on the mob.
 
Gunman said:
To give an example:
If i rest and get hate on a mob, and it beats on me over and over. Then I spame cure 4 myself until i'm out of mp, my hate should be strong correct? If someone else comes up after that and casts dia on that mob it will pull the mob off of me. This would not happen if I was truly in the hate queue. Test it out, this will prove it. Sac pulling is another example. If someone aggros a mob, then I flash it and die, that mob will not go looking for the original person who aggro'd it. TH would act in the same way. You are not truly in the hate queue until you perform an actual action on the mob.
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That sounds like a good test, especially for resting hate. However, I'm pretty sure healing someone on the hate list also puts you on the list, even though it's not directed at the mob. Something as simple as Dia doesn't pull it off, unfortunately.
 
Gunman said:
To give an example:
If i rest and get hate on a mob, and it beats on me over and over. Then I spame cure 4 myself until i'm out of mp, my hate should be strong correct? If someone else comes up after that and casts dia on that mob it will pull the mob off of me. This would not happen if I was truly in the hate queue. Test it out, this will prove it. Sac pulling is another example. If someone aggros a mob, then I flash it and die, that mob will not go looking for the original person who aggro'd it. TH would act in the same way. You are not truly in the hate queue until you perform an actual action on the mob.
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Outside of a BC situation, you get put into the hate queue one of two ways:

a) Performing an action against the mob
b) Performing a beneficial action on someone who is in the hate queue.

If you get resting aggro and then spam cure 4 yourself, you were never in the hate queue because you only had resting aggro (which is not a or b). Therefore the cure 4s did nothing to increase your hate. However, If you provoked the mob (a), and then someone cast cure 4 on you (b), they would be in the hate queue, and if someone then cast cure 4 on them, they would also be in the hate queue and the mob would come looking for them in the situation you described above.
 
I was probably a little unclear, but I was saying the same thing Kalia said. Yes if you cure someone who performed an action, that would put you in the queue. If I rest aggro a mob tho I can use my whole JA line on Pld, and you would still be able to pull it off w/ something as simple as dia because I have performed no action against it.
 
I vote Chame goes thf/whm and Diaga pulls the next dynamis to try this out. Damage will surely put them on the hate list.

Can try it several ways, I doubt there's really all that much distiction on how somthing hates you, it just hates you. May be worth a few thieves resting to guage any difference from the norm. Yeah, they'll do less work, it's kinda galling. Lots of folks are afk in Dynamis anyway and we often have so many DDs opening up on the mobs that by the time I hit my assist macro the mob it will go from 100% to 0% health on occasion before the game processes my attack command. As a thf I really doubt I'm ever very high on the mobs hate list unless we have a really low turnout. I'm lucky if I get a few swings in even when hasted before anyone but NMs expire. Maybe that has something to do with NM drop rates, idk.

Bard may be an idea, I can sub that to try sometime.

Ranged, maybe, but may as well sub war and voke sleeping mobs too, or sub whm and work on healing the tanks for hate from a larger audience.

If resting works though seems the most effective way of doing it, bard being runner up since you can keep spamming the songs without refresh. Can try different methods different runs to guage results.
 
Yes I was kidding about diaga.

Though not about being perfectly willing to sacrifice Chame to test any theory^^

I think I'll sub bard on my thf in a dynamis soon and try spamming my own lullabies and mazurkas and see if it annoys anything into more plentiful dropping.

Haha, fear me mages I shall interupt your spells through my mildly annoying poking stick +1.

May be good in the blm party. Spamming an extra ballad or paeon may put me just enough into the hate list of the burned statues.
 
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