I know analyzing time travel in stories (particularly when it affects things retroactively) is a bit of a fool's errand, so I've tried to keep my thoughts on its effect on characterization rather than "plot holes," but I've come away from Endwalker feeling disappointed in how they handled Venat, and how the characters in the story seem oblivious to what I feel is her true burden, the loss of her free will.
From the moment we divulge everything we know about the future until we meet Hydaelyn in the aetherial sea 12000+ years later, she is acting in accordance with that knowledge. The sundering, the moon, the flower, what must happen to the source and the rejoined shards, EVERYTHING that must happen if we are to meet again in the far future. By keeping her memory intact, every decision she makes from then until the "rivers of time converge" MUST be weighed as an attempt to CHANGE that future, or an attempt to REACH that future.
As "The Will of the Star," she is nothing but a slave to that path set for her. How did she emotionally navigate that journey? Did she EVER falter? Did she really rail against fate unflinchingly for 12000+ years, attempting to avoid and overcome the conditions that let us meet, despite calamity after calamity pointing to its inevitability and necessity? Or did some part of her accept the loss of free will and the fact that that future MUST come to pass, either as a matter of course or as a deliberate choice so that SOMETHING could survive Meteion's song? This would be despite her efforts to save the ancients and the shards, and the knowledge that this necessitates half of humanity be sacrificed through rejoinings anyway to accomplish these goals.
EITHER would be horrifically tragic, and both offer the chance for some incredible pathos once we get to the rivers of time converging, where she FINALLY doesn't have to factor that contradiction into her decisions anymore. I would have LOVED for her to pour her heart out about the difficulty of her journey, throw it in a voiceover if she needs to put on a brave face when we meet in the present, but eg "the future is still unwritten" would have finally been TRUE for her! Instead, I was left wondering if this was an implication that was even being considered, or if it was hollowed out to make sure the player didn't feel culpable for handing her this curse (or, maybe even worse, they felt it was too difficult to fit retroactively or undermined earlier story beats and thus ignored it). This aspect of her burden and the personal toll it must have taken is left unsaid by any character anywhere in the game to my knowledge, and I really hope that's just me missing something, because without it, any discussion of her actions is just so incomplete.
Maybe what I want is too specific, but I feel like I needed to see SOME evidence of change from the Venat we see in Elpis — an accomplished woman with some hubris who thinks "fate remains ours to shape," "nothing is impossible," who shoulders this burden with as few people as possible, and only considers the POSSIBILITY of "the seeds of a conjunction" of time between us — into whoever she becomes in her long journey as Hydaelyn. When Ardbert is on the source and says "Now you deign to answer our prayers!?" does she feel like she's just perpetuating a farce? So much of Hydaelyn is artifice, she has known and worked toward the first being saved in exactly this manner for 12000+ years, so does that artifice make her FEEL guilt or anger or sadness? In the intervening time she has had so little agency, enacted her future self's plans, lost shard after shard, fell into lock step with a known future, but she HAS endured, and she sees that it's US who shape the future by exiting the stage the MOMENT she doesn't know what the future holds. How does she feel about HER "free will" vs OUR "free will" by her end?? I don't know! But I would have loved to hear it from her, or hear it speculated on by literally any of the scions who met her.
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From the moment we divulge everything we know about the future until we meet Hydaelyn in the aetherial sea 12000+ years later, she is acting in accordance with that knowledge. The sundering, the moon, the flower, what must happen to the source and the rejoined shards, EVERYTHING that must happen if we are to meet again in the far future. By keeping her memory intact, every decision she makes from then until the "rivers of time converge" MUST be weighed as an attempt to CHANGE that future, or an attempt to REACH that future.
As "The Will of the Star," she is nothing but a slave to that path set for her. How did she emotionally navigate that journey? Did she EVER falter? Did she really rail against fate unflinchingly for 12000+ years, attempting to avoid and overcome the conditions that let us meet, despite calamity after calamity pointing to its inevitability and necessity? Or did some part of her accept the loss of free will and the fact that that future MUST come to pass, either as a matter of course or as a deliberate choice so that SOMETHING could survive Meteion's song? This would be despite her efforts to save the ancients and the shards, and the knowledge that this necessitates half of humanity be sacrificed through rejoinings anyway to accomplish these goals.
EITHER would be horrifically tragic, and both offer the chance for some incredible pathos once we get to the rivers of time converging, where she FINALLY doesn't have to factor that contradiction into her decisions anymore. I would have LOVED for her to pour her heart out about the difficulty of her journey, throw it in a voiceover if she needs to put on a brave face when we meet in the present, but eg "the future is still unwritten" would have finally been TRUE for her! Instead, I was left wondering if this was an implication that was even being considered, or if it was hollowed out to make sure the player didn't feel culpable for handing her this curse (or, maybe even worse, they felt it was too difficult to fit retroactively or undermined earlier story beats and thus ignored it). This aspect of her burden and the personal toll it must have taken is left unsaid by any character anywhere in the game to my knowledge, and I really hope that's just me missing something, because without it, any discussion of her actions is just so incomplete.
Maybe what I want is too specific, but I feel like I needed to see SOME evidence of change from the Venat we see in Elpis — an accomplished woman with some hubris who thinks "fate remains ours to shape," "nothing is impossible," who shoulders this burden with as few people as possible, and only considers the POSSIBILITY of "the seeds of a conjunction" of time between us — into whoever she becomes in her long journey as Hydaelyn. When Ardbert is on the source and says "Now you deign to answer our prayers!?" does she feel like she's just perpetuating a farce? So much of Hydaelyn is artifice, she has known and worked toward the first being saved in exactly this manner for 12000+ years, so does that artifice make her FEEL guilt or anger or sadness? In the intervening time she has had so little agency, enacted her future self's plans, lost shard after shard, fell into lock step with a known future, but she HAS endured, and she sees that it's US who shape the future by exiting the stage the MOMENT she doesn't know what the future holds. How does she feel about HER "free will" vs OUR "free will" by her end?? I don't know! But I would have loved to hear it from her, or hear it speculated on by literally any of the scions who met her.
submitted by /u/orchidoideae
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...