Point Lotting Clarification

Garret

Garret

Galkasaur
FC/Active Member
There was a bit of confusion the other night regarding who could lot AF2 & how many points it would cost. I will try to clarify some of that here.

This is how the point tier system is supposed to work. I am going to use an example to demonstrate.

Pld AF2 Boots drop in Windurst. These are lvl. 71 & cost 4 points.

/l Pld Boots 4 points

Nobody present wants to spend 4 points on these. People are not required to spend their points, they can choose to wait to lot until the point cost goes down. Keep in mind if you let the cost be lowered you will have to lot against more people in order to win.

/l Pld Boots 2 points, 60+ may lot.

When the point cost reaches 2 points, or lower, people with that job 60+ are allowed to lot on it, there is not supposed to be any priority for those with that job 70+ because they have not earned enough points to have sole rights to it yet, accordingly they then have to lot against more people to win it.

Nobody decides to lot.

/l Pld Boots 0 points, 60+ may lot.

This is just another point reduction, the lotting is still only open to those with that job 60+, no matter how many points they have.

Nobody decides to lot.

/l Pld Boots free lot.

At this point anyone may lot, regardless of level. People winning AF2 that is free lotted MAY STILL lot other AF2, or 100's if they have that as their seacom, later in the run. Free lotting DOES NOT affect other lots in any way, shape or form.

Lots commence & someone wins.



Now, that is how it should work, however, because the point system is new & nobody has many points there are currently a few caveats I am temporarily applying.

Instead of the 4 points > 2 points 60+ > 0 points 60+ I am stipulating in that it is 4 points > 2 points, can equip > 2 points, 60+ > 0 points, can equip > 0 points, 60+

This is just to allow for the fact that some people have not yet had any chance to build up their points & as such I don't want to be overly harsh in applying all of the point criteria so that people are still able to win AF2 in the spirit of how the rules were designed.

I expect to use these temporary point measures for a month, maybe 2, depending on how it plays out. Once more people are above the 4 point threshold it will make much more sense & be easier to apply.



Hoepfully that makes sense, but feel free to ask for any clarification.
 
Not only this seems very confusing, but it also seems alot of people will lot stuffs right and left without asking.

I don't get the seacom problem either, why not just make the old seacom system? Set a job, or 100 note, on which someone will lot, and stick with it. Don't know, all this seems really confusing.

Btw it would be interesting to add people running on Saturday in your KI post. I'm myself starting a Dynamis LS for EU people cause you guys are starting to run really late for me (went from 3pm to 7, to 7:30, and now 8pm on Sunday...).
Anyway, I know NuDawn run around 3pm EST on Sunday, shell holder is Talel but Primal or Clirran really runs it I think. Continue LS run on Saturday around 8pm EST, leader is Kalasin and some others. I know Denton runs DynamisValefor, but don't know if he has fixed scheduled. Also can ask Sparhawk for Tribulation and Yuriku for Vibe (note sure if they still do Dynamis).

Peace and good luck DX :bfg:
 
The KI post was only for Sun/Wed because other days wouldn't impact those of us on those days =P

But you are welcome to make an identical thread on KI for Sat. For scheduling purposes I didn't want it cluttered up by every Dynamis LS on Valefor.

However, it might be nice to have a sticky in the KI forum like "Valefor Dynamis LS" which includes the days/times each shell runs & who their respective leaders are. Just the thread I posted was only for scheduling help for ones that interfere with our schedule.

The point tier system actually worked pretty well for most of the lots, just there was some confusion at the start which is why I clarified.

Only at the beginning was there confusion on who could lot a piece of AF2 which was cleared up quickly.

I'm not sure why it should be so confusing. If someone knows how many points they have, which is publically available, and they know what jobs they have 60+ then how difficult is it to read & understand

/l Pld 2 points wearable
/l Pld 2 points 60+
/l Pld 0 points wearable
/l Pld 0 points 60+
/l Pld Free Lot

? I don't personally use many filters in Dynamis & am still able to consistently read both /l & /t, which I get a lot of during a run, without much trouble while picking the lines out what is essentially all special actions by my alliance, all damage my alliance takes, and the only thing I really filter out is damage given & anything that is from an outside alliance. In addition to my tendency to spam my recast macro which shoves a full chat log page up. It's not all that tough really.
 
The only time I see it being a problem is if for some reason Garret has an emergency, there needs to be people assigned to shout out the point requirements in his absence. Granted there problably is someone like that already, but I wanted to mention it just in case :x

Also, if by some freak of nature we have several AF drop in rapid succession, and we might have a lot of mobs to fight/sleep at the time, it is certainly in the realm of possibility that some AF would be pushed out of the pool. I've always been wary of trying to determine who's allowed to lot -during- a Dynamis run, as many Dynamises are hectic enough as it is.

What if we made it so people have to list how many points they're willing to spend on an AF in comment, and have alliance or party leaders (probably alliance) write it down before the run or something? At the very least, make sure that -everyone- has their correct point total listed and 60+ jobs, otherwise people could take advantage of the system while things are hectic.

I thought it went pretty smooth last night aside from a couple people who misunderstood the lotting rules.
 
The only way its possible for AF to be pushed out of the pool is if there are 10 AFs in the pool, and an 11th AF drops.
 
What Kalia said.

Rare/Ex items never get pushed out of the pool unless the pool is filled with only Rare/Ex items.

A more likely scenario is getting 2-3 AF2 in rapid succession during a large train which then proceeds to wipe us. In that case people would need to be very vocal in LS if they planned to lot for something.

i.e.

/l Ok we're all dead, who needs a raise to lot the 2 point Monk? 0 point Monk?

etc, etc.

While I do try my best to make every Dynamis, I think I've only missed 2-4 since we changed Sundays to 7pm EST, there are occasionally runs I end up missing & I typically try to have someone cover for organizing; Fodder, Benny, Kalia, Sassafras all have at one point or another I think.

I think that given a month or so these rules will become pretty clear to most of those attending, much like our previous rule set, and should not be difficult for people to have an idea of what should be happening. By the end of the Sandoria run I think people were pretty clear on what to lot & when, at least it seemed that way as there was essentially no bickering, tells, or anything of that nature after the first maybe 3-4 pieces of AF2 had dropped, each of which had a few questions asked.
 
I have always had an aversion to point systems, but I think this one is very well done. There were a couple of sticky spots but that was due to fast or slow lotting and people not paying attention. After another run or two I think everyone will get it down pretty well.
 
I have an aversion to point systems within HNM LS themselves, but I feel like there are pros & cons to them within a strictly Dynamis setting.

If attendance can stay strong while rewarding people's participation then I feel that is more fair to people than a system which has similar attendance levels but which is much more random in its time spent vs. rewards gained.

Of course if a month from now attendance plummets to 15-20 people a run then the system probably isn't working well =)
 
I think the point system is defined and as plotted works well. The only slow points last night were folks not paying attention or coming back from afk and making us back up. Personally I think handling new rules with kiddy gloves at first is a good idea, but later on down the lines when we're expected to be on the ball I think we should balk at backing up, that's an aside though.

I also think there should be more tiers though, at least 1. It seems to go right from full points to 2 points 60+, and I think there should be one higher than that. Speaking as one who actually has a lot of 60+, I'd still prefer the 70+ to have dibs over my 60s.

Going from 4 pts wearable, to 2 points 70+ (or wearable), then to 2 points 60+ seems much more fair to me. Then 0 pts 70+ (or wearable), 0 pts 60+, and freelot. It takes awhile for the treasure to be kicked, we have the time, and it seems a lot fairer to everyone to me.

At the very least having 0 pts 70+ added in is more beneficial to recruiting new members as those who just join the shell will know that they have a chance at the armor they can wear if no one with points wants to spend them, rather than knowing they're in a bracket where everyone 60+ with no points can lot with them.
 
I do like the idea of possibly adding a tier that is 2 points wearable > 2 point 60+ but at 0 points I feel like it should still be 60+ if only to help encourage that extra attendance to reach the higher lotting tiers.

Attending 4 runs to be on full footing to lot AF2 for a 70+ job isn't really that many or anything.
 
Mane said:
Going from 4 pts wearable, to 2 points 70+ (or wearable), then to 2 points 60+ seems much more fair to me. Then 0 pts 70+ (or wearable), 0 pts 60+, and freelot. It takes awhile for the treasure to be kicked, we have the time, and it seems a lot fairer to everyone to me.
Click to expand...

While the 0 pts 70+ option does have some merit, why should people even go for the 2 point option? If everyone just holds back, then we'd be back where we started, except now people don't have to declare a job.
 
Sassafras said:
While the 0 pts 70+ option does have some merit, why should people even go for the 2 point option? If everyone just holds back, then we'd be back where we started, except now people don't have to declare a job.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt you'll see everyone hold back.

Yeah, there will be stuff people won't bother with points on I'd wager. Generally the same stuff that usually gets free lotted like bst, drg, & drk. If they were freelotted before points, odds are they will be afterwards too, or someone will toss 2 points to fully dress his mannequin or something.

But I'm also sure there are armor people have waited ages for, finally see drop, and will want it.

The point system allows you to actually decide how much you want something and assign a value to it. You can decide if you wanna drop full points and actually leave with something facing little to no competition, or let it drop in price and risk losing it. It's all in how much you care, and some care a lot, while others don't.

As to the 0pt's 70+ (or wearable, whatever) one of the main complaints I hear from people is AF going to people who can't wear it over the people who can. I personally like having shit ready for me when I hit the right level, but if someone can wear it before me... I understand they probably should. Now if someone wants to blow points on something they can't wear yet, then someone with no points can eat the dissapointment and like it. Points are points and means someone put their time in. Still, even at no points, I'd rather someone who can wear it put it on before someone who has to leave it in the safe for awhile, and it only benefits us if they do... provided the armor is of course not complete crap.

Keep new people from whining about how they coulda shouda worn it waah waah unfair, but I hardly think DX has to worry about recruitment regardless.

Still, it's one less whiney comment in link chat that no one wants to hear and even goes so far as sparing people after dynamis in other links and friend's list about how someone else got the armor and they coulda worn, and waah waah, and maybe we could save some poor guy from stressing out and going to lay a smack down on his wife and kids after hearing the whiny rant of one too many online virgins with nothing else to talk about aside from how he was most lately screwed over in his digital fantasy life.

We do it for the kids man. Spare'em from the smacking.
 
idk, kind of agree with sass.

if you don't want to spend the points before it goes as far as it does then i can only say that you are trying to play the system to your advantage which will have risks such as opening it up to others who might wanna lot it then you have the competition. Is it worth taking that chance? Only you can decide that.

you really have to decide how important your points are to you, is it just for dress / looks or to be used.

/shrug
 
Also to be considered is that some of us havent gotten af since we started comming to DX. So we are really enjoying this system that gives us a chance at AF for our loyalty.
 
I think point usage will settle down a bit after we've gotten past this initial phase. People won't hold back quite as much when they have more points gathered.

For instance, I knew entering Sandy that I wouldn't lot for the whm hat until it hit 0 points. It's not that great a piece, and spending 2 points would mean I wouldn't be able to lot on equal terms for these first 2 Beaucedine runs. The bard hat I decided I'd see how the run went, and really only lotted at 2 points because I figured I couldn't win over Aqua's 900+ lot. ^_^;;

If this had been a little further on and I had enough points for later, I'd have easily spent 4 on bard and 2 on whm (maybe 4 depending on how many points were available). It just wasn't worth it now because I have two very good body pieces waiting for me in Beaucedine, and I would be upset with myself if I couldn't lot for them.

It'll be a while before we really know how the point costs work out, but it still looks to me like they'll work fine.
 
Yeah that is more or less what I expected with points to an extent. But with many people saving up for big ticket items; Shadow Items / Xarcabard AF2 or even just Glacier it also means that newer members have the opportunity to pick up some city AF2 relatively easily so it works both ways depending on what people want out of it.

Many people attending also have a variety of competitive jobs at high level so I imagine it will still take some time to accumulate points & AF2 for that, but I am hoping that there will be enough things to spend points on that it should encourage long & loyal attendance without losing the fun communal owning of Dynamis which I find to be the reason DX is fun.

In case anyone wasn't aware that was one of our best Sandoria runs ever in terms of the numbers of mobs killed and I believe is our single currency record as well at 311, for Sandoria that is.

One thing I really enjoy about the system is that it encourages veteran players to come back to attend early cities, even if they don't need AF2, which makes these runs MUCH easier, as well as gives better guidance to newer players by having a solid example to follow.
 
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