Two Talking Points

Nekio

Nekio

{Gilfinder}
1. It was suggested today that we split up coins/synth materials and AF upgrades into two separate lotting categories. To be honest, I have no problem with this, and I only included them together because I didn't think there would be any interest in lotting only AF upgrades or only coins. The fact that this was brought up proves there is. Any objections? Think it's a good idea?

2. Our current active members include approximately 2-3 Nashira lotters and 7-8 Homam lotters. Between getting extra chips off gunpods, and slipping in low-man Apollyon zones when we have overflow while doing Temenos, we tend to spend very few days farming chips in Apollyon relative to Temenos. In addition, there are many Apollyon AF drops that people have been looking for. Since I know what the majority would say if I were to put it to a vote, I'll simply ask if there are any large objections to switching to a Omega:Omega:Ultima cycle to get Homam flowing faster? In practice, this would mean aproximately 5-week cycles instead of our current 4-week cycles, on average.

Discuss.
 
I would be in favor of both proposed changes... but don't have much to add really. :badshape:

Seems to me that if there is interest in splitting the coin/AF catergory then it is fair to do so.

And considering that we have so few lotting Nash now seems fair to do MOAR HOMAMAMAMS!

my 2 cents :o
 
That's funny, I swear I brought this up months ago but got laughed at because THAT WOULDN'T BE FAIR TO ALL THE NASHIRA LOTTERS. Good luck.
 
Nekio said:
Am I to assume that no one cares either way? lol
Click to expand...
It had only been a day from when you first posted. :P

The only reason I see for point 1 is to spread more AF items or coins to the homam/nashira lotters. There's almost no competition within the AF/coin category; the only people I can think of from the last few cycles (and who are still here) are Megatron and myself. I think Mega only can make it about 1/2 the time too. So we don't really have the case where this more rationally splits AF items and coins between people who are currently competing for both. The main result is going to be taking whichever part isn't lotted and distributing it among the homam/nashira lotters.

If this will help bring people to runs, I'll live with it. Just don't expect me to be an enthusiastic supporter of the idea.

Point 2 I would have been strongly against, but it does look like circumstances have changed. Two people qualifying to lot Nashira, and half the pieces going to be free-lotted? That's a huge change from the normal "6 people lined up for each piece" we had some months ago. And I know a lot of people have been frustrated that we never seem to get Apollyon AF items.

If the Nashira lotters as a group strongly oppose this, I will throw my vote on their side; I would rather not make the change even if the majority were in favor. Mages really get the short end of the stick in Limbus, and this would make things even worse. But if they don't mind the extra delay, this could help out the group overall.
 
First off how is it fair for someone who has everything they want from ultima/omega to get all the AF they want and a boat load of coins? I have been trying to get some af pieces now for about 3 years. I would totally lot AF if I wasn't going after ultima/omega pieces. Just because someone has everything they want from ultima/omega or have no jobs that can equip it means they should get all the af and coins?


As for doing Omega > Omega > Ultima. Lots of nash pieces going free lot and only 2 people need nash peices. While I see that it hurts them in terms of getting gear in reality it doesn't hurt that much. For one we basically never do apollyon. Its so much easier then temenos and has a lot less chips needed to get to the boss. Also all the floors in apollyon can be done with 6 people or less. There are a few zones in Temenos that need more then 6 people to clear. We can basically be done a Omega set in a week and half. It takes us about 2-3 weeks to get done an Ultima set. Also considering the amount of time spent in temenos compaired to apollyon there are a lot more af pieces needed from apollyon then temenos and normally when we do have a split run with one group going to one zone and another group in the other. People are really fighting for Apollyon zones because thats where they need the AF from. Thats not fair over all. While doing O>O>U does push back how fast people will get nash gear. Its not like it doubles the amount of time it takes to get to Ultima. We can easily farm 2 omega pops in the time it takes us to farm 1 ultima chip set.
 
Varda said:
The only reason I see for point 1 is to spread more AF items or coins to the homam/nashira lotters. There's almost no competition within the AF/coin category; the only people I can think of from the last few cycles (and who are still here) are Megatron and myself. I think Mega only can make it about 1/2 the time too. So we don't really have the case where this more rationally splits AF items and coins between people who are currently competing for both. The main result is going to be taking whichever part isn't lotted and distributing it among the homam/nashira lotters.
Click to expand...
For the record, I know a lot of Homam lotters are considering switching to coins/AF until demand dies down. When I first came up with the coin/af lotting idea, I honestly expected at least 3-4 people lotting those at any given run. I'm suprised there was so little interest. I think that the coin distribution seems lopsided currently because only one person is lotting them... if we accumulate a few coin lotters the difference wouldn't be so substantial.

As for adding an Omega between Ultimas, at this point, assuming a Nashira and Homam lotter both need/want all pieces, the Nashira lotter will statistically get their gear about 4 times faster than the Homam lotter, just due to competition. If we doubled our Omegas per cycle, that would decrease to about twice as fast, for comparison.

The more justifiable argument, however, really is that I'd like to be in Apollyon more than we are for the sake of AF drops.
 
Just wondering. How would it work if say there was only one person lotting nash and needed all the pieces. When we killed ultima would they get all the pieces?
 
I guess, yes. They would get any pieces that they needed. I never really thought about it. The lotting order has always been: Nash lotters > Nash lotters that have already won a piece > Non-Nash lotters that can equip > Free lot
 
Heie said:
First off how is it fair for someone who has everything they want from ultima/omega to get all the AF they want and a boat load of coins? I have been trying to get some af pieces now for about 3 years. I would totally lot AF if I wasn't going after ultima/omega pieces. Just because someone has everything they want from ultima/omega or have no jobs that can equip it means they should get all the af and coins?
Click to expand...
That's a good case for changing the rules to what Nekio is proposing. My comment was more directly targeted at Nekio's "I only included them together because I didn't think there would be any interest in lotting only AF upgrades or only coins. The fact that this was brought up proves there is." I don't believe anyone is interested in lotting one of them instead of both. I believe the interest is to spread them more around the homam/nashira lotters.

That's fine, and like I said, I would go along with it if we make the change. I'm not excited about it, but I think it's as reasonable as separating AF/coins from homam/nashira in the first place.

As for doing Omega > Omega > Ultima. Lots of nash pieces going free lot and only 2 people need nash peices. While I see that it hurts them in terms of getting gear in reality it doesn't hurt that much. For one we basically never do apollyon. Its so much easier then temenos and has a lot less chips needed to get to the boss. Also all the floors in apollyon can be done with 6 people or less. There are a few zones in Temenos that need more then 6 people to clear. We can basically be done a Omega set in a week and half. It takes us about 2-3 weeks to get done an Ultima set. Also considering the amount of time spent in temenos compaired to apollyon there are a lot more af pieces needed from apollyon then temenos and normally when we do have a split run with one group going to one zone and another group in the other. People are really fighting for Apollyon zones because thats where they need the AF from. Thats not fair over all. While doing O>O>U does push back how fast people will get nash gear. Its not like it doubles the amount of time it takes to get to Ultima. We can easily farm 2 omega pops in the time it takes us to farm 1 ultima chip set.
Click to expand...
Much of this is detail that I tried to sum up in "Mages really get the short end of the stick in Limbus." Compared to Apollyon, Temenos takes more runs, more people on the runs, and a failure sets you back farther. Why SE thought this was a good design, I'll never know.

I have been a big and sometimes vocal proponent of evening out the runs between the two areas because of this problem. I'm not changing my mind just because I no longer need Nashira pieces, even though a more even distribution of non-boss runs means I would benefit by getting AF items faster. That's why I said that if the remaining Nashira lotters strongly oppose the plan, I would vote with them. If they don't mind so much, that's fine with me.
 
Nekio said:
I guess, yes. They would get any pieces that they needed. I never really thought about it. The lotting order has always been: Nash lotters > Nash lotters that have already won a piece > Non-Nash lotters that can equip > Free lot
Click to expand...
That surprises me. I thought we've always gone with "win one piece at most," unless no one else in the group wanted it. I don't think either way will have a long-term impact, but I could see potential for people getting upset. I'd be interested to see if anyone felt strongly one way or the other.
 
Varda said:
That surprises me. I thought we've always gone with "win one piece at most," unless no one else in the group wanted it. I don't think either way will have a long-term impact, but I could see potential for people getting upset. I'd be interested to see if anyone felt strongly one way or the other.
Click to expand...
I'd rather avoid the whole situation and always have someone lotting each piece. :P I can see pros and cons of doing it both ways... while I don't think it's very fair for someone to win multiple pieces in one run, I also don't find it fair for someone who's not even prioritizing Nashira to have priority over someone who has it commented. That's something else we can debate here.
 
I may be biased as a homam lotter..but...I think most homam lotters would share my sentiments regardless (I will be going for some nashira pieces in the future...distant future..when I actually have homam.) because it's always been a problem that there are always way more people after homam and always the "things need to be even" side of the nashira lotters.

I don't think this change would affect nashira lotters that much, the difference is all of like 1 week, and we're not the most populated, quick-running group there is.

That said, I'm definitely siding with changing to OOU.

As for the AF/coins split, I'm indifferent; It has provided an incentive that not too many people find appealing enough to take for there to be 4-5 people on each cycle reaping coins and upgrades. Maybe it could use a little tweaking.
 
Since we spoiled our Nash lotters with two leg drops tonight, the final decision is to switch to an O > O > U cycle.

The decision about whether or not to split coins/af will continue to be discussed here and a final decision made after our next Ultima (when this cycle ends). As of now, I'm not seeing any strong support to change how things are now, though no one seems to care much either way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top