Well... its been a long, interesting ride, but we're finally reaching the end of this story. The conflict between the mothercrystal and the Dark god of the Ancients is reaching its conclusion, and I've been thinking quite a bit about the 2 as a result, and have delved frankly WAY too deep into theory territory then I likely should have trying to piece together what I believe to be the nature of the world's two most central figures. This is diving headfirst into spoiler territory since its bringing up several figures in the game's story as a whole as well as their fates, so... yeah.
In our journey to the first, once we find Urianger, he gives us the revelation that our concepts of Astral and Umbral, aka, Active and Passive aether, was actually backwards. While those on the Source believed that the Active was Light, and the Passive Dark, it was actually the inverse, with Dark being the Active, and Light the passive. Applying what that would mean to how Tempering of those types of Aether would affect other creatures led me down the rabbit hole that created this thread.
Light is passive, and therefore, causes stagnation, sluggishness and general inaction. Even those who are fully "Tempered" and become the monsters known as Sin Eaters are actually incredibly passive beings at heart. Whenever we destroy a Lightwarden, the other Sin Eaters just bugger off right, without something/someone of greater power directly spurring them on into action, they simply cannot be arsed to act, that's why the Sin Eaters in Vauthry's chambers were so docile. Because he wasn't ordering them to do anything, they chose to do nothing, because they're very aetherial nature is Passivity.
On the inverse... Dark is Active, and causes impulsiveness and restlessness. The Voidsent, which are the Dark equivalent of the Sin Eaters, pretty much have no true Masters, whatever it is they are doing, they are doing purely for their own reasons, but the difference between them and a normal, non-Dark tempered person, is they have no Light, in other words, they have no sense of Restraint, so they set out to do whatever their mind is set on... and proceed to NEVER stop. Take Diabolos for instance, his main drive throughout the Shadow of Mhach storyline ultimately came down to one thing, "Obtain power at whatever cost", but even after he had absorbed the power of the Shadow Queen Scathach, it still wasn't enough for him and he continued to plead for greater strength well up until his defeat, and I think I can explain why that is.
Let's examine what Ardbert told us about the ultimate fate that would await the First if the Flood of Light consumed it, everything within it would basically be stuck in a constant state of inaction, forever frozen in a Passive state, unable to ever wake from it, an "and I must Scream" fate to be sure, but now apply this to Darkness... the exact opposite of Light. Imagine that you're running a marathon, you're chest is pounding, you're out of breath, you're legs feel like they're going to fall off, but the finish line is right there, you're just about to reach it... and suddenly it flies backwards another 10 miles, everytime you get close to finishing it, it just sails away out of reach again, and for some reason you just cannot stop yourself from continuing to chase after it.
You're stuck in an endless state of Action, with Nothing but Darkness making up your being, any sense of passivity, restraint or an outright sense of finality no longer exists for you, you're essentially forced into a state of being where you're chasing after that one goal you felt compelled to finish, but no matter what you do it just does not ever seem to be enough, no matter how close you get to realizing it, even when you eventually manage to accomplish that goal, it STILL doesn't feel like enough, and you continue to push forward anyways, constantly reaching towards an end that will never come.
This is also why the Ascians are as driven to their goals as they are, since they are tempered to Zodiark, the living GOD of Darkness, their aether and their minds are essentially permanently stuck in "Active" mode, even though their god seems to be allowing them to retain free will, they're dead set on whatever their goals are and no matter how many worlds they rejoin, no matter how many lives they end, or even how many of their own are slain in this supposedly futile pursuit, its Never enough. Take Elidibus for example, even when he had hit the point where he couldn't even remember WHY he was even doing what he was doing, he still continued to pursue what he felt was his duty, never once pausing to reconsider if it was even worth it anymore. Because as a tempered to Zodiark, heart or otherwise, he outright couldn't, the passive part of his aether no longer existed, so he continued to chase after what the Active part wanted him to do, until we managed to defeat him and effectively slammed the brakes for him. When we gave him the crystals of his brethren and he began to cry, it was because for the first time in his immortal existence post-tempering, he was finally able to pause and reflect on everything that had happened and could drag himself away from that endless goal his Dark-aspected soul forced him to pursue day in and night out to mourn the passing of his people.
By comparison, the WoL themselves, at least in ARR, was actually an example of someone tempered towards Hydaelyn, the Goddess of Light. Though they also possessed their own free will, they pretty much NEVER acted out of their own volition, everything they did, they did at the call of someone else without a single word in response, because their aether was locked at "Passive", they couldn't bring themselves to force a word of doubt or even agreement because they literally didn't have it in them to do so. Once Midgardsormer took Hydaelyn's blessing away from them though... he basically jump started their aether, without Hydaelyn's blessing, her TEMPERING, their aether became Active again, and as a result of the WoL finally being able to speak for themselves for the first time since their adventure began... Fray happened. Now that the WoL had Active aether, they didn't have to just go along with whatever anyone told them to do anymore, and that sense of freedom and choice immediately went to their head and they began to outwardly voice their frustrations, becoming more jaded, violent and self-centered, in other words... they began to swing hard in the other direction and were at risk of becoming Dark-aspected, forsaking everything else for the sake of personal desires with no restraints to consider if that was what they really wanted, but unlike the Ascians, they managed to reign it back in, if Fray is essentially the WoL's voice, then the WoL is Fray's anchor, the restraint that makes them pause to consider their actions, to make sure they're really making the right choices and not blindly chasing their impulses for the rest of their lives.
With all of that out of the way... that brings me to our current dilemma. For all intents and purposes, we're finally going to be confronting Zodiark, Hydaelyn or both. But the way their very natures affects those they come into contact with, if either one wins, nothing but bad things will happen. If we fully destroy Zodiark, then Hydaelyn's power will spill out unopposed, essentially causing a Mass Flood of Light, Active aether will cease and we'll all be stuck in an endless state of "Bliss". If we were to instead destroy Hydaelyn, then Zodiark's influence will overcome all in a Deluge of Darkness and every living being will begin to mindlessly pursue their innermost desires for the rest of eternity, never able to stop themselves. In short, the best solution would either be to destroy both of them, or alternately... do what we did with Fray, bring them to an understanding and merge them together into one being, Hydaelyn would become the voice of logic and restraint to keep Zodiark's ambitions in check while Zodiark would become the voice of action that would cause Hydaelyn to finally start playing an active role in maintaining the worlds she watches over, divided, their struggle has caused nothing but misery to all that are involved, but if they were to come together, then they would finally be able to mete out a constant, prosperous existence for their subjects and their champions would ensure the safety of the worlds they have left.
At the end of the day though... this is just one GIGANTIC theory, but it's one I felt would spark a bit of discussion, so if this actually interests you, what are your thoughts?
submitted by /u/Oddly_red47
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...
In our journey to the first, once we find Urianger, he gives us the revelation that our concepts of Astral and Umbral, aka, Active and Passive aether, was actually backwards. While those on the Source believed that the Active was Light, and the Passive Dark, it was actually the inverse, with Dark being the Active, and Light the passive. Applying what that would mean to how Tempering of those types of Aether would affect other creatures led me down the rabbit hole that created this thread.
Light is passive, and therefore, causes stagnation, sluggishness and general inaction. Even those who are fully "Tempered" and become the monsters known as Sin Eaters are actually incredibly passive beings at heart. Whenever we destroy a Lightwarden, the other Sin Eaters just bugger off right, without something/someone of greater power directly spurring them on into action, they simply cannot be arsed to act, that's why the Sin Eaters in Vauthry's chambers were so docile. Because he wasn't ordering them to do anything, they chose to do nothing, because they're very aetherial nature is Passivity.
On the inverse... Dark is Active, and causes impulsiveness and restlessness. The Voidsent, which are the Dark equivalent of the Sin Eaters, pretty much have no true Masters, whatever it is they are doing, they are doing purely for their own reasons, but the difference between them and a normal, non-Dark tempered person, is they have no Light, in other words, they have no sense of Restraint, so they set out to do whatever their mind is set on... and proceed to NEVER stop. Take Diabolos for instance, his main drive throughout the Shadow of Mhach storyline ultimately came down to one thing, "Obtain power at whatever cost", but even after he had absorbed the power of the Shadow Queen Scathach, it still wasn't enough for him and he continued to plead for greater strength well up until his defeat, and I think I can explain why that is.
Let's examine what Ardbert told us about the ultimate fate that would await the First if the Flood of Light consumed it, everything within it would basically be stuck in a constant state of inaction, forever frozen in a Passive state, unable to ever wake from it, an "and I must Scream" fate to be sure, but now apply this to Darkness... the exact opposite of Light. Imagine that you're running a marathon, you're chest is pounding, you're out of breath, you're legs feel like they're going to fall off, but the finish line is right there, you're just about to reach it... and suddenly it flies backwards another 10 miles, everytime you get close to finishing it, it just sails away out of reach again, and for some reason you just cannot stop yourself from continuing to chase after it.
You're stuck in an endless state of Action, with Nothing but Darkness making up your being, any sense of passivity, restraint or an outright sense of finality no longer exists for you, you're essentially forced into a state of being where you're chasing after that one goal you felt compelled to finish, but no matter what you do it just does not ever seem to be enough, no matter how close you get to realizing it, even when you eventually manage to accomplish that goal, it STILL doesn't feel like enough, and you continue to push forward anyways, constantly reaching towards an end that will never come.
This is also why the Ascians are as driven to their goals as they are, since they are tempered to Zodiark, the living GOD of Darkness, their aether and their minds are essentially permanently stuck in "Active" mode, even though their god seems to be allowing them to retain free will, they're dead set on whatever their goals are and no matter how many worlds they rejoin, no matter how many lives they end, or even how many of their own are slain in this supposedly futile pursuit, its Never enough. Take Elidibus for example, even when he had hit the point where he couldn't even remember WHY he was even doing what he was doing, he still continued to pursue what he felt was his duty, never once pausing to reconsider if it was even worth it anymore. Because as a tempered to Zodiark, heart or otherwise, he outright couldn't, the passive part of his aether no longer existed, so he continued to chase after what the Active part wanted him to do, until we managed to defeat him and effectively slammed the brakes for him. When we gave him the crystals of his brethren and he began to cry, it was because for the first time in his immortal existence post-tempering, he was finally able to pause and reflect on everything that had happened and could drag himself away from that endless goal his Dark-aspected soul forced him to pursue day in and night out to mourn the passing of his people.
By comparison, the WoL themselves, at least in ARR, was actually an example of someone tempered towards Hydaelyn, the Goddess of Light. Though they also possessed their own free will, they pretty much NEVER acted out of their own volition, everything they did, they did at the call of someone else without a single word in response, because their aether was locked at "Passive", they couldn't bring themselves to force a word of doubt or even agreement because they literally didn't have it in them to do so. Once Midgardsormer took Hydaelyn's blessing away from them though... he basically jump started their aether, without Hydaelyn's blessing, her TEMPERING, their aether became Active again, and as a result of the WoL finally being able to speak for themselves for the first time since their adventure began... Fray happened. Now that the WoL had Active aether, they didn't have to just go along with whatever anyone told them to do anymore, and that sense of freedom and choice immediately went to their head and they began to outwardly voice their frustrations, becoming more jaded, violent and self-centered, in other words... they began to swing hard in the other direction and were at risk of becoming Dark-aspected, forsaking everything else for the sake of personal desires with no restraints to consider if that was what they really wanted, but unlike the Ascians, they managed to reign it back in, if Fray is essentially the WoL's voice, then the WoL is Fray's anchor, the restraint that makes them pause to consider their actions, to make sure they're really making the right choices and not blindly chasing their impulses for the rest of their lives.
With all of that out of the way... that brings me to our current dilemma. For all intents and purposes, we're finally going to be confronting Zodiark, Hydaelyn or both. But the way their very natures affects those they come into contact with, if either one wins, nothing but bad things will happen. If we fully destroy Zodiark, then Hydaelyn's power will spill out unopposed, essentially causing a Mass Flood of Light, Active aether will cease and we'll all be stuck in an endless state of "Bliss". If we were to instead destroy Hydaelyn, then Zodiark's influence will overcome all in a Deluge of Darkness and every living being will begin to mindlessly pursue their innermost desires for the rest of eternity, never able to stop themselves. In short, the best solution would either be to destroy both of them, or alternately... do what we did with Fray, bring them to an understanding and merge them together into one being, Hydaelyn would become the voice of logic and restraint to keep Zodiark's ambitions in check while Zodiark would become the voice of action that would cause Hydaelyn to finally start playing an active role in maintaining the worlds she watches over, divided, their struggle has caused nothing but misery to all that are involved, but if they were to come together, then they would finally be able to mete out a constant, prosperous existence for their subjects and their champions would ensure the safety of the worlds they have left.
At the end of the day though... this is just one GIGANTIC theory, but it's one I felt would spark a bit of discussion, so if this actually interests you, what are your thoughts?
submitted by /u/Oddly_red47
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...