For your consideration:
To situate this in the timeline, go back to the early part of the Sixth Astral Era. The mortal Shiva's desire to never be separated from Hraesvelgr resulted in her death, and this love is what inspired the formation of a joint community of mortals and dragons in Dravania, above and below the demesne of Sohm Al. For whatever reason, the game's lore hasn't been explicit about giving a name for this society, but based on the region in the Dravanian Forelands called "Avalonia Fallen" I'm advocating for "Avalonia" as the catch-all term for the Skylord/Landlord stuff in Dravania and the Churning Mists.
Now, consider the possibility that the mortal Shiva was sainted mainly by followers of Menphina, as Shiva's sacrifice in the name of love brought about a miraculous peace and harmony between dragons and mortals. The idea that Menphina would look kindly on the romantic-but-tragic aspects of Shiva's love for Hraesvelgr, and that this would be something that would thus resonate with Menphina's followers as they appealed for peace and love in Avalonia, feels like a very plausible accent to Shiva's story.
Add in the following details indicating how Ysayle's primal of Shiva shares some qualities with Menphina:
This is also part of a larger thesis that centers on deducing which Eorzean city-states revered which of the Twelve as their patrons during the Fifth Astral Era. We only know four of those city-states (Amdapor, Mhach, Nym, and Skalla) and we only have explicit knowledge of two of those patrons (Nophica for Amdapor and Oschon for Nym), so that means that there are a lot of unknown 5AE city-states across a wide swath of Eorzea who need patron deities.
Along those lines, the Mark of Menphina is in the Coerthas Central Highlands. While we know Coerthas is presently very ice-aligned, we know that prior to the 7UC it looked more similar to Il Mheg/Voeburt on the First... which is a territory that would feel rather appropriate for Menphina as a Goddess of Love.
All of this to say that if Menphina was the patron god of a particular city-state during the 5AE, the possibility that it was a city-state in Coerthas or Dravania (particularly around Sohm Al) that was destroyed in the War of the Magi and subsequently replaced with Avalonia and (later) Ishgard feels plausible.
To get a bit more behind the scenes here, I feel like a big project for Oda (and/or the creative collective around Oda on the broader team) was to infuse Menphina with properties that would differentiate her from the more traditional depictions of a goddess of love: where Aphrodite, for example, is presented as voluptuous, flirtatious, and often focused on fertility and the physical aspect of love (i.e. seggs), Menphina is more innocent. Menphina's design reads younger, the kind of love she describes is easy to interpret as a platonic love, or even the sort of one-sided semi-romantic infatuation that a student might have for an upperclassman or teacher, where acting upon it would be scandalous but the NOTION of it reads like a shoujo manga.
I say all of this to try and nail down that there's a very intentional read of Saint Shiva's bond with Hraesvelgr that is a kind of chaste devotion, which echoes the sensibilities of Menphina's characterization. While I don't think that'll ever stop the dragon-banger allegations (both in the fandom, because we're all very horny, and in-universe, because maligning Saint Shiva as a Jezebel who debased herself with dragon-bestiality was TOTES a project for the Holy See) it's an aspect that I think warrants more attention, especially given the other listed parallels with Menphina that Shiva (whether the saint or the primal) possesses.
Anyhow, your thoughts?
Continue reading...
To situate this in the timeline, go back to the early part of the Sixth Astral Era. The mortal Shiva's desire to never be separated from Hraesvelgr resulted in her death, and this love is what inspired the formation of a joint community of mortals and dragons in Dravania, above and below the demesne of Sohm Al. For whatever reason, the game's lore hasn't been explicit about giving a name for this society, but based on the region in the Dravanian Forelands called "Avalonia Fallen" I'm advocating for "Avalonia" as the catch-all term for the Skylord/Landlord stuff in Dravania and the Churning Mists.
Now, consider the possibility that the mortal Shiva was sainted mainly by followers of Menphina, as Shiva's sacrifice in the name of love brought about a miraculous peace and harmony between dragons and mortals. The idea that Menphina would look kindly on the romantic-but-tragic aspects of Shiva's love for Hraesvelgr, and that this would be something that would thus resonate with Menphina's followers as they appealed for peace and love in Avalonia, feels like a very plausible accent to Shiva's story.
Add in the following details indicating how Ysayle's primal of Shiva shares some qualities with Menphina:
- The association with the element of Ice.
- Having a semi-monstrous canine companion (Fenrir for Ysayle/Primal Shiva, opposite Dalamud for Menphina, with an aside of pointing out the similar parallel in FF16 with Shiva's Dominant, Jill Warwick, and best boy frost hound Torgal).
This is also part of a larger thesis that centers on deducing which Eorzean city-states revered which of the Twelve as their patrons during the Fifth Astral Era. We only know four of those city-states (Amdapor, Mhach, Nym, and Skalla) and we only have explicit knowledge of two of those patrons (Nophica for Amdapor and Oschon for Nym), so that means that there are a lot of unknown 5AE city-states across a wide swath of Eorzea who need patron deities.
Along those lines, the Mark of Menphina is in the Coerthas Central Highlands. While we know Coerthas is presently very ice-aligned, we know that prior to the 7UC it looked more similar to Il Mheg/Voeburt on the First... which is a territory that would feel rather appropriate for Menphina as a Goddess of Love.
All of this to say that if Menphina was the patron god of a particular city-state during the 5AE, the possibility that it was a city-state in Coerthas or Dravania (particularly around Sohm Al) that was destroyed in the War of the Magi and subsequently replaced with Avalonia and (later) Ishgard feels plausible.
To get a bit more behind the scenes here, I feel like a big project for Oda (and/or the creative collective around Oda on the broader team) was to infuse Menphina with properties that would differentiate her from the more traditional depictions of a goddess of love: where Aphrodite, for example, is presented as voluptuous, flirtatious, and often focused on fertility and the physical aspect of love (i.e. seggs), Menphina is more innocent. Menphina's design reads younger, the kind of love she describes is easy to interpret as a platonic love, or even the sort of one-sided semi-romantic infatuation that a student might have for an upperclassman or teacher, where acting upon it would be scandalous but the NOTION of it reads like a shoujo manga.
I say all of this to try and nail down that there's a very intentional read of Saint Shiva's bond with Hraesvelgr that is a kind of chaste devotion, which echoes the sensibilities of Menphina's characterization. While I don't think that'll ever stop the dragon-banger allegations (both in the fandom, because we're all very horny, and in-universe, because maligning Saint Shiva as a Jezebel who debased herself with dragon-bestiality was TOTES a project for the Holy See) it's an aspect that I think warrants more attention, especially given the other listed parallels with Menphina that Shiva (whether the saint or the primal) possesses.
Anyhow, your thoughts?
Continue reading...