Sargatanas Novice Network actually had an interesting discussion on the roulettes a few nights ago, so I'm taking down the notes in the form of a suggestion thread for posterity's sake. That, and it had legitimately good suggestions that would contribute greatly towards future-proofing the game in the long term.
Looking at the roulettes as of late and how the players behave around them, some long-term problems are starting to come to light. Most notably the Leveling Roulette, the 50/60/70/eventual 80 Roulette, and the Alliance Roulette. However, the Alliance Roulette has a very obvious problem that's separate from the two dungeon roulettes, so that will be addressed last.
To recap, here's a list of available dungeons in the two dungeon roulettes.
Leveling Roulette:
(ARR)
- Satasha (Lv. 15)
- Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Lv. 16)
- Copperbell Mines (Lv. 17)
- Halitali (Lv. 20)
- The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (Lv. 24)
- Haukke Manor (Lv. 28)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Lv. 32)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Lv. 35)
- Cutter's Cry (Lv. 38)
- The Stone Vigil (Lv. 41)
- Dzemael Darkhold (Lv. 44)
- The Aurum Vale (Lv. 47)
(Heavensward)
- The Dusk Vigil (Lv. 51)
- Sohm Al (Lv. 53)
- The Aery (Lv. 55)
- The Vault (Lv. 57)
- The Great Gubal Library (Lv. 59)
(Stormblood)
- The Sirensong Sea (Lv. 61)
- Shishui of the Violet Tides (Lv. 63)
- Bardam's Mettle (Lv. 65)
- Doma Castle (Lv. 67)
- Castrum Abania (Lv. 69)
(Shadowbringers)
- Holminster Switch (Lv. 71)
- Dohn Mheg (Lv. 73)
- The Qitana Ravel (Lv. 75)
- Malikah's Well (Lv. 77)
- Mt. Gulg (Lv. 79)
50/60/70/eventual 80 Roulette:
(Lv. 50)
- The Wanderer's Palace
- Amdapor Keep
- Pharos Sirius
- Copperbell Mines (Hard)
- Haukke Manor (Hard)
- The Lost City of Amdapor
- Halitali (Hard)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
- Hullbreaker Isle
- The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
- The Stone Vigil (Hard)
- Snowcloak
- Satasha (Hard)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
- The Keeper of the Lake
- The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
- Amdapor Keep (Hard)
(Level 60)
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility
- Neverreap
- The Fractal Continuum
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
- Pharos Sirius (Hard)
- The Antitower
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
- Sohr Khai
- Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
- Xelphatol
- The Great Gubal Library (Hard)
- Baelsar's Wall
- Sohm Al (Hard)
(Level 70)
- Ala Mhigo
- Kugane Castle
- The Temple of the Fist
- The Drowned City of Skalla
- Hells' Lid
- The Fractal Continuum (Hard)
- The Swallow's Compass
- The Burn
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Hard)
- The Ghimlyt Dark
(Level 80)
- Amaurot
- The Twinning
- Akadaemia Anyder
Notice something? The list of 50/60/70 dungeons (currently 40, will soon be 43) is far larger than the list of Leveling dungeons (27). Yet the roulette for the former tends to have far longer queue times than that of the latter, since the latter in the eyes of the community is currently far more rewarding than the former. This has led to certain points in player progression where queue times for story-required dungeons in the 50/60/70 category end up absurdly long, especially for DPS players. (Plus 'Duty Roulette: 50/60/70 Dungeons currently clips in the duty finder screen. If that isn't an argument towards re-organizing it to this development team, I don't know what is.)
To address that problem, I propose that we re-categorize Leveling and 50/60/70/80 Roulette into Story Dungeon Roulette and Optional Dungeon Roulette. The reward for both roulettes should be equalized as well, having both roulettes award the same EXP/Poetics tome rewards as current Leveling Roulette (if below max level) and the same Goetia/etc. tome rewards as current 50/60/70 Roulette (if at max level).
This would re-shuffle the roulettes into the following dungeons.
Story Dungeon Roulette:
- Satasha (Lv. 15)
- Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Lv. 16)
- Copperbell Mines (Lv. 17)
- The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (Lv. 24)
- Haukke Manor (Lv. 28)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Lv. 32)
- The Stone Vigil (Lv. 41)
- Snowcloak (Lv. 50)
- The Keeper of the Lake (Lv. 50)
- Sohm Al (Lv. 53)
- The Aery (Lv. 55)
- The Vault (Lv. 57)
- The Great Gubal Library (Lv. 59)
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility (Lv. 60)
- The Antitower (Lv. 60)
- Sohr Khai (Lv. 60)
- Xelphatol (Lv. 60)
- Baelsar's Wall (Lv. 60)
- The Sirensong Sea (Lv. 61)
- Bardam's Mettle (Lv. 65)
- Doma Castle (Lv. 67)
- Castrum Abania (Lv. 69)
- Ala Mhigo (Lv. 70)
- The Drowned City of Skalla (Lv. 70)
- Hells' Lid (Lv. 70)
- The Swallow's Compass (Lv. 70)
- The Burn (Lv. 70)
- The Ghimlyt Dark (Lv. 70)
- Holminster Switch (Lv. 71)
- Dohn Mheg (Lv. 73)
- The Qitana Ravel (Lv. 75)
- Malikah's Well (Lv. 77)
- Mt. Gulg (Lv. 79)
- Amaurot (Lv. 80)
(33 dungeons, up from Leveling Roulette's 27. 34 if you include Amaurot. Hell's Lid and Swallow's Compass are categorized as story dungeons because they are both required to progress further in the Four Lords trial series, even if they are not part of the MSQ themselves.)
Optional Dungeon Roulette:
- Halitali (Lv. 20)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Lv. 35)
- Cutter's Cry (Lv. 38)
- Dzemael Darkhold (Lv. 44)
- The Aurum Vale (Lv. 47)
- The Wanderer's Palace (Lv. 50)
- Amdapor Keep (Lv. 50)
- Pharos Sirius (Lv. 50)
- Copperbell Mines (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Haukke Manor (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Lv. 50)
- Halitali (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Hullbreaker Isle (Lv. 50)
- The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Stone Vigil (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Satasha (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Wanderer's Palace (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Amdapor Keep (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Dusk Vigil (Lv. 51)
- Neverreap (Lv. 60)
- The Fractal Continuum (Lv. 60)
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Lv. 60)
- Pharos Sirius (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Hullbreaker Isle (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- The Great Gubal Library (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Sohm Al (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Shishui of the Violet Tides (Lv. 63)
- Kugane Castle (Lv. 70)
- The Temple of the Fist (Lv. 70)
- The Fractal Continuum (Hard) (Lv. 70)
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Hard) (Lv. 70)
- The Twinning (Lv. 80)
- Akadaemia Anyder (Lv. 80)
(34 dungeons, down from 50/60/70 Roulette's 40. 36 if you include Twinning and Akadaemia.)
As an additional suggestion, the way roulettes determine which dungeon you get should be redone as well, to be weighted towards each players' current job level.
People don't like it when a party full of level 60+ players somehow ends up being dropped into Satasha. The game has a problem with many people reaching endgame without really knowing how to use some of their skills effectively. The daily method of leveling having a high chance of dropping you into a lower level dungeon where you can't practice using your new skills doesn't help the situation either.
Some examples of this proposed change...
The roulette selects 4 players. Their current job levels are as follows:
- Lv. 76 Warrior
- Lv. 68 Astrologian
- Lv. 71 Dragoon
- Lv. 60 Summoner
All four queued into 'Story Dungeon Roulette'. Since the Summoner is the lowest level, the proposed weighting system means that the Roulette chooses one of the level 60 dungeons for the group, and does not consider the lower level dungeons at all.
That means the group will get one of the following dungeons:
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility
- The Antitower
- Sohr Khai
- Xelphatol
- Baelsar's Wall
If the Summoner had been Level 61 instead, the group would have gotten Sirensong Sea instead. If the Summoner had been higher level than the Astrologian, the group would get Doma Castle.
However, if one of the four players in the roulette manually queued for a specific dungeon, that player will override the weighting system with their choice of dungeon. Still, in the event that the player queued for multiple dungeons at once, and assuming the remaining three players' job levels are higher than the dungeons that the first player queued for, the game would prioritize the highest level dungeon chosen.
---
Alliance Roulette... Where do I even begin?
The original purpose of Alliance Roulette was to revitalize the older 24-man raid series. Prior to the Roulette being introduced, the Crystal Tower raid series especially would frequently see queue times of 1-2+ hours.
Now, because of people lowering their item level to force the roulette to choose the lower level raids for the roulette, we now have the exact opposite problem: The roulette frequently chooses the level 50 Crystal Tower raid series above all others. Orbonne Monastery, the most recent Alliance raid, now sees queue times upwards of 2+ hours.
Get rid of item level weighting for the Alliance Roulette. The roulette should not be manipulated in this way. Orbonne may be harder than the rest, but it wouldn't be the insurmountable task the community thinks it is if experienced players actually started doing it again, instead of it being a raid that is now more or less limited to new players who missed the train before. (If it's really needed, Orbonne could use a nerf too.)
Continue reading...
Looking at the roulettes as of late and how the players behave around them, some long-term problems are starting to come to light. Most notably the Leveling Roulette, the 50/60/70/eventual 80 Roulette, and the Alliance Roulette. However, the Alliance Roulette has a very obvious problem that's separate from the two dungeon roulettes, so that will be addressed last.
To recap, here's a list of available dungeons in the two dungeon roulettes.
Leveling Roulette:
(ARR)
- Satasha (Lv. 15)
- Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Lv. 16)
- Copperbell Mines (Lv. 17)
- Halitali (Lv. 20)
- The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (Lv. 24)
- Haukke Manor (Lv. 28)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Lv. 32)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Lv. 35)
- Cutter's Cry (Lv. 38)
- The Stone Vigil (Lv. 41)
- Dzemael Darkhold (Lv. 44)
- The Aurum Vale (Lv. 47)
(Heavensward)
- The Dusk Vigil (Lv. 51)
- Sohm Al (Lv. 53)
- The Aery (Lv. 55)
- The Vault (Lv. 57)
- The Great Gubal Library (Lv. 59)
(Stormblood)
- The Sirensong Sea (Lv. 61)
- Shishui of the Violet Tides (Lv. 63)
- Bardam's Mettle (Lv. 65)
- Doma Castle (Lv. 67)
- Castrum Abania (Lv. 69)
(Shadowbringers)
- Holminster Switch (Lv. 71)
- Dohn Mheg (Lv. 73)
- The Qitana Ravel (Lv. 75)
- Malikah's Well (Lv. 77)
- Mt. Gulg (Lv. 79)
50/60/70/eventual 80 Roulette:
(Lv. 50)
- The Wanderer's Palace
- Amdapor Keep
- Pharos Sirius
- Copperbell Mines (Hard)
- Haukke Manor (Hard)
- The Lost City of Amdapor
- Halitali (Hard)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
- Hullbreaker Isle
- The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
- The Stone Vigil (Hard)
- Snowcloak
- Satasha (Hard)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
- The Keeper of the Lake
- The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
- Amdapor Keep (Hard)
(Level 60)
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility
- Neverreap
- The Fractal Continuum
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
- Pharos Sirius (Hard)
- The Antitower
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
- Sohr Khai
- Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
- Xelphatol
- The Great Gubal Library (Hard)
- Baelsar's Wall
- Sohm Al (Hard)
(Level 70)
- Ala Mhigo
- Kugane Castle
- The Temple of the Fist
- The Drowned City of Skalla
- Hells' Lid
- The Fractal Continuum (Hard)
- The Swallow's Compass
- The Burn
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Hard)
- The Ghimlyt Dark
(Level 80)
- Amaurot
- The Twinning
- Akadaemia Anyder
Notice something? The list of 50/60/70 dungeons (currently 40, will soon be 43) is far larger than the list of Leveling dungeons (27). Yet the roulette for the former tends to have far longer queue times than that of the latter, since the latter in the eyes of the community is currently far more rewarding than the former. This has led to certain points in player progression where queue times for story-required dungeons in the 50/60/70 category end up absurdly long, especially for DPS players. (Plus 'Duty Roulette: 50/60/70 Dungeons currently clips in the duty finder screen. If that isn't an argument towards re-organizing it to this development team, I don't know what is.)
To address that problem, I propose that we re-categorize Leveling and 50/60/70/80 Roulette into Story Dungeon Roulette and Optional Dungeon Roulette. The reward for both roulettes should be equalized as well, having both roulettes award the same EXP/Poetics tome rewards as current Leveling Roulette (if below max level) and the same Goetia/etc. tome rewards as current 50/60/70 Roulette (if at max level).
This would re-shuffle the roulettes into the following dungeons.
Story Dungeon Roulette:
- Satasha (Lv. 15)
- Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Lv. 16)
- Copperbell Mines (Lv. 17)
- The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (Lv. 24)
- Haukke Manor (Lv. 28)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Lv. 32)
- The Stone Vigil (Lv. 41)
- Snowcloak (Lv. 50)
- The Keeper of the Lake (Lv. 50)
- Sohm Al (Lv. 53)
- The Aery (Lv. 55)
- The Vault (Lv. 57)
- The Great Gubal Library (Lv. 59)
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility (Lv. 60)
- The Antitower (Lv. 60)
- Sohr Khai (Lv. 60)
- Xelphatol (Lv. 60)
- Baelsar's Wall (Lv. 60)
- The Sirensong Sea (Lv. 61)
- Bardam's Mettle (Lv. 65)
- Doma Castle (Lv. 67)
- Castrum Abania (Lv. 69)
- Ala Mhigo (Lv. 70)
- The Drowned City of Skalla (Lv. 70)
- Hells' Lid (Lv. 70)
- The Swallow's Compass (Lv. 70)
- The Burn (Lv. 70)
- The Ghimlyt Dark (Lv. 70)
- Holminster Switch (Lv. 71)
- Dohn Mheg (Lv. 73)
- The Qitana Ravel (Lv. 75)
- Malikah's Well (Lv. 77)
- Mt. Gulg (Lv. 79)
- Amaurot (Lv. 80)
(33 dungeons, up from Leveling Roulette's 27. 34 if you include Amaurot. Hell's Lid and Swallow's Compass are categorized as story dungeons because they are both required to progress further in the Four Lords trial series, even if they are not part of the MSQ themselves.)
Optional Dungeon Roulette:
- Halitali (Lv. 20)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Lv. 35)
- Cutter's Cry (Lv. 38)
- Dzemael Darkhold (Lv. 44)
- The Aurum Vale (Lv. 47)
- The Wanderer's Palace (Lv. 50)
- Amdapor Keep (Lv. 50)
- Pharos Sirius (Lv. 50)
- Copperbell Mines (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Haukke Manor (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Lv. 50)
- Halitali (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Hullbreaker Isle (Lv. 50)
- The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Stone Vigil (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Satasha (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Wanderer's Palace (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- Amdapor Keep (Hard) (Lv. 50)
- The Dusk Vigil (Lv. 51)
- Neverreap (Lv. 60)
- The Fractal Continuum (Lv. 60)
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Lv. 60)
- Pharos Sirius (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Hullbreaker Isle (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- The Great Gubal Library (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Sohm Al (Hard) (Lv. 60)
- Shishui of the Violet Tides (Lv. 63)
- Kugane Castle (Lv. 70)
- The Temple of the Fist (Lv. 70)
- The Fractal Continuum (Hard) (Lv. 70)
- Saint Mocianne's Arboretum (Hard) (Lv. 70)
- The Twinning (Lv. 80)
- Akadaemia Anyder (Lv. 80)
(34 dungeons, down from 50/60/70 Roulette's 40. 36 if you include Twinning and Akadaemia.)
As an additional suggestion, the way roulettes determine which dungeon you get should be redone as well, to be weighted towards each players' current job level.
People don't like it when a party full of level 60+ players somehow ends up being dropped into Satasha. The game has a problem with many people reaching endgame without really knowing how to use some of their skills effectively. The daily method of leveling having a high chance of dropping you into a lower level dungeon where you can't practice using your new skills doesn't help the situation either.
Some examples of this proposed change...
The roulette selects 4 players. Their current job levels are as follows:
- Lv. 76 Warrior
- Lv. 68 Astrologian
- Lv. 71 Dragoon
- Lv. 60 Summoner
All four queued into 'Story Dungeon Roulette'. Since the Summoner is the lowest level, the proposed weighting system means that the Roulette chooses one of the level 60 dungeons for the group, and does not consider the lower level dungeons at all.
That means the group will get one of the following dungeons:
- The Aetherochemical Research Facility
- The Antitower
- Sohr Khai
- Xelphatol
- Baelsar's Wall
If the Summoner had been Level 61 instead, the group would have gotten Sirensong Sea instead. If the Summoner had been higher level than the Astrologian, the group would get Doma Castle.
However, if one of the four players in the roulette manually queued for a specific dungeon, that player will override the weighting system with their choice of dungeon. Still, in the event that the player queued for multiple dungeons at once, and assuming the remaining three players' job levels are higher than the dungeons that the first player queued for, the game would prioritize the highest level dungeon chosen.
---
Alliance Roulette... Where do I even begin?
The original purpose of Alliance Roulette was to revitalize the older 24-man raid series. Prior to the Roulette being introduced, the Crystal Tower raid series especially would frequently see queue times of 1-2+ hours.
Now, because of people lowering their item level to force the roulette to choose the lower level raids for the roulette, we now have the exact opposite problem: The roulette frequently chooses the level 50 Crystal Tower raid series above all others. Orbonne Monastery, the most recent Alliance raid, now sees queue times upwards of 2+ hours.
Get rid of item level weighting for the Alliance Roulette. The roulette should not be manipulated in this way. Orbonne may be harder than the rest, but it wouldn't be the insurmountable task the community thinks it is if experienced players actually started doing it again, instead of it being a raid that is now more or less limited to new players who missed the train before. (If it's really needed, Orbonne could use a nerf too.)
Continue reading...