TLDR: The game lacks actual learning for jobs/mechanics and leads to potential community problems later when called out about it. Should they do anything to solve this?
This is something that's been on my mind recently and I really saw it come into play while watching a popular Twitch streamer start doing previous late game content that isn't a "main" FFXIV streamer.
We know the obvious "you don't pay my sub" but there are also the rare occurrences of people actually being toxic/elitist while people are learning fights. In my experience this is actually not that frequent relative to the number of times people are running said content. This would be one end of the spectrum I'm referring to. The other side would be the ones where you can't say anything at all or people will get offended/defensive and in turn actually call you toxic/elitist even for the simplest things when still phrased politely.
For example a certain popular streamer was playing DRG, which wasn't their main, and they were doing Omega raids normal and grouping with their viewers/FC. Their personal DPS was completely irrelevant, and it "didn't matter" even if they were being carried cause it was for fun which is fine.
The “problem” was that they were not using Blood of the Dragon at all initially. If you play DRG and know even a little bit, you would realize that's an important mechanic of the job. That also meant they weren't using half of their important skills. Part of the problem was their hotbar setup and they didn't want to spend time messing with it then, which is fine I guess for an excuse, but we can plainly see a fundamental problem here. This was with the job at 70+ and I’m pretty sure not boosted (maybe).
Of course because it’s Twitch, and this person is a popular streamer, you had people pointing out the lack of Blood of the Dragon. For the most part it was pretty tame or memeing with emotes, but nothing like calling them a bad player or not being optimal with perfect play. But either because of their own community or it being part of the FFXIV community, those people were then called out for being toxic or elitist and to “let him play the way he wants” or “stop backseating”. I get backseating is annoying, but pointing out that they weren’t using BotD is like the farthest thing from that and it wasn’t like people were trying to get them to do their full rotation properly with optimal off global cooldown usage, it was literally one ability that is the main function of the job. Their DPS didn’t matter, but it’s the principle of the whole situation.
This to me was a great example for why the lack of proper in-game tutorials hinder the learning experiences of new players and instigate the entire community problem when it comes to player skill level either with learning jobs or the fights themselves.
The more you watch streams of people who don’t main the game, the more you realize how bad the situation is. Then you start to think about all the people who aren’t streaming and are maybe playing on their own without anyone ever pointing them in the right direction.
There’s basically nothing to help these people in-game and at the same time nothing to stop these people from progressing through the game in their own world of blissful ignorance. Then when the time comes when someone tries to help or calls them out for it, it’s either you’re actually toxic or accused of being such and they do what they want anyway or worse quit. The middle ground is basically silence. The rare unicorn is someone being helpful and the person actually appreciating it and learning.
I was always a supporter of making Stone, Sky, Sea required for relevant content even if it could be manipulated and didn’t accurately represent requirements of fights simply as a lowest possible bar to do said content. Watching some of the streamers I’ve watched, I do not think they could even do that much. Then throw in the mechanics and it would be nowhere close.
Since SSS isn’t teaching anything, what else could the game do to actually help people learn? The Beginner’s Hall only teaches the most basic of things, and I don’t even think it’s required to progress. But what if there were lessons for each job that functioned like the Blue Mage Masked Carnivale fights? Except in this case it actually explained optimal rotations for given levels, like 50, 60, 70, 80.
For example have a training dummy for each level set that shows you the exact rotation to do on a set timer that’s a pass/fail like you see in combo trials of fighting games. Then have another set of lessons be fights for those level sets that show off known mechanics for people to learn and explain them, using npc party members as necessary of course.
Then it’s a question of, should that type of content be required for progress? I can guarantee some of you will say no, and thus defeat the whole purpose. Meanwhile countless people suggest players to look up video guides for fights before even doing them or looking up rotation guides to learn how to play a job, but making that an in-game requirement seems too far-fetched and frowned upon. So what’s a casual player supposed to do when they are just trying to go through the game like that streamer was? Why doesn’t the game itself do something about it?
Is it basically a lost cause and why they haven’t bothered with anything more in-depth than the job guides on the lodestone? Is this why the safest thing to do in this game is to be silent and not say a word as you do content? Or otherwise have a premade for everything to avoid these situations at all cost.
submitted by /u/FF-Enzo
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Continue reading...
This is something that's been on my mind recently and I really saw it come into play while watching a popular Twitch streamer start doing previous late game content that isn't a "main" FFXIV streamer.
We know the obvious "you don't pay my sub" but there are also the rare occurrences of people actually being toxic/elitist while people are learning fights. In my experience this is actually not that frequent relative to the number of times people are running said content. This would be one end of the spectrum I'm referring to. The other side would be the ones where you can't say anything at all or people will get offended/defensive and in turn actually call you toxic/elitist even for the simplest things when still phrased politely.
For example a certain popular streamer was playing DRG, which wasn't their main, and they were doing Omega raids normal and grouping with their viewers/FC. Their personal DPS was completely irrelevant, and it "didn't matter" even if they were being carried cause it was for fun which is fine.
The “problem” was that they were not using Blood of the Dragon at all initially. If you play DRG and know even a little bit, you would realize that's an important mechanic of the job. That also meant they weren't using half of their important skills. Part of the problem was their hotbar setup and they didn't want to spend time messing with it then, which is fine I guess for an excuse, but we can plainly see a fundamental problem here. This was with the job at 70+ and I’m pretty sure not boosted (maybe).
Of course because it’s Twitch, and this person is a popular streamer, you had people pointing out the lack of Blood of the Dragon. For the most part it was pretty tame or memeing with emotes, but nothing like calling them a bad player or not being optimal with perfect play. But either because of their own community or it being part of the FFXIV community, those people were then called out for being toxic or elitist and to “let him play the way he wants” or “stop backseating”. I get backseating is annoying, but pointing out that they weren’t using BotD is like the farthest thing from that and it wasn’t like people were trying to get them to do their full rotation properly with optimal off global cooldown usage, it was literally one ability that is the main function of the job. Their DPS didn’t matter, but it’s the principle of the whole situation.
This to me was a great example for why the lack of proper in-game tutorials hinder the learning experiences of new players and instigate the entire community problem when it comes to player skill level either with learning jobs or the fights themselves.
The more you watch streams of people who don’t main the game, the more you realize how bad the situation is. Then you start to think about all the people who aren’t streaming and are maybe playing on their own without anyone ever pointing them in the right direction.
There’s basically nothing to help these people in-game and at the same time nothing to stop these people from progressing through the game in their own world of blissful ignorance. Then when the time comes when someone tries to help or calls them out for it, it’s either you’re actually toxic or accused of being such and they do what they want anyway or worse quit. The middle ground is basically silence. The rare unicorn is someone being helpful and the person actually appreciating it and learning.
I was always a supporter of making Stone, Sky, Sea required for relevant content even if it could be manipulated and didn’t accurately represent requirements of fights simply as a lowest possible bar to do said content. Watching some of the streamers I’ve watched, I do not think they could even do that much. Then throw in the mechanics and it would be nowhere close.
Since SSS isn’t teaching anything, what else could the game do to actually help people learn? The Beginner’s Hall only teaches the most basic of things, and I don’t even think it’s required to progress. But what if there were lessons for each job that functioned like the Blue Mage Masked Carnivale fights? Except in this case it actually explained optimal rotations for given levels, like 50, 60, 70, 80.
For example have a training dummy for each level set that shows you the exact rotation to do on a set timer that’s a pass/fail like you see in combo trials of fighting games. Then have another set of lessons be fights for those level sets that show off known mechanics for people to learn and explain them, using npc party members as necessary of course.
Then it’s a question of, should that type of content be required for progress? I can guarantee some of you will say no, and thus defeat the whole purpose. Meanwhile countless people suggest players to look up video guides for fights before even doing them or looking up rotation guides to learn how to play a job, but making that an in-game requirement seems too far-fetched and frowned upon. So what’s a casual player supposed to do when they are just trying to go through the game like that streamer was? Why doesn’t the game itself do something about it?
Is it basically a lost cause and why they haven’t bothered with anything more in-depth than the job guides on the lodestone? Is this why the safest thing to do in this game is to be silent and not say a word as you do content? Or otherwise have a premade for everything to avoid these situations at all cost.
submitted by /u/FF-Enzo
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...