TL;DRYou don't actually have to read this and there's already other threads on this but just know that Bards and Dancers are what Ninja was fresh last tier, and Mch, Rdm. And they should fix it.
I'm a Bard main. I recently got replaced by my static along with either MCH or NIN, main reason being so they could have a better chance at clearing E8S enrage.
I checked statistics on the parse website and I saw that BRD and DNC are bottom on both rdps and adps by a rather noticeable margin. MCH is also far from idea. Summoner was a bit over the top.
After some discussion, it seems most people believe Physical Ranged dps are designed to have lower dps than melee or ranged due to their "flexibility in movement", and "permanent uptime". They also have more damage contribution coming "passively" from raid than personal dps, have more HP than casters, don't have to greed dangerously into mechanics unlike melees, and have somewhat easier and more forgiving rotations.
However, people also have pointed out that in the end, ranged physical dps have to prog with melee and casters too, and in Savage if melee greed and die whole raid dies too. The flexibility in movement and easier learning phase for mechanics does not actually lessen prog time. Furthermore, raids are nowadays carefully designed to always give some kind of space to melee and casters uptime on mechanics, while some mechanics such as look-away, physical ranged dps do not actually get any extra benefit than say melee, and have to do the mechanics anyways. Supposed "aoe benefit" phases such as add phase have also been designed to not benefit ranged dps or multi-dotting (cough E6S, E8S which actually hurts OGCD mains, E7S maybe but it also benefits summoner). And while we can move during our rotations, it doesn't actually make it any easier, especially with Ping-sensitive MCH and ogcd spam BRD. DNCs is now SMNs' 2nd pet.
Thus I hope they can be changed for the better, hopefully by next patch as Ninja fix happened. Hopefully even slightly buffed a bit to "make up" for the experience of this patch. But I digress.
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There are many trains of thought for possible fixes, and obviously more than I can come up with alone. I hope good ideas can be made and passed on to SE, but I will attempt some examples.
There can be psychological/ quality-of-life type changes.
To make the player feel better. For instance, DNC prefers to dance MNKs because that monks equal faster gauge and slightly more personal dps. This could be changed to either be set gauge increase for any class, or to be diversified so dancers could multi-dance and change partners, even dance tanks and healers for temporary buffs, etc.
To make the player feel fairly treated. For instance, BRD songs and BV do not benefit the BRD themselves. This is just sad and despiriting. Also, the averaged apprx. 1.2% dps increase from songs also feels rather poorly designed and bland. The move of reducing dot potency while giving a tiny flat increase in sidewinder was also a lackluster move. And tiny things that add up to BRD enrages and discontent. Apex Arrow design also sticks out like a sore thumb.
MCH CD alignments this tier are a pain. For almost every fight. Apart from opener big fat burst, lots of phases are piecemeal CDs. It is unsatisfying.
In the end, with the amount of OGCD we have, you'd think it should feel more satisfying to play the class since it should feel like "happily push button for dps all-you-can-eat". But in reality it is the opposite. It's pressure. We instead feel like if we mash even a bit slower we'd be punished for our already low dps. And after mashing it all, after stats come out, it's disheartening.
There can maybe be some structural changes to raiding.
And this is not just for ranged physical dps. In raids, tanks dps and healers always compete for loot and it's never not a matter. Dps and Dps compete for loot and there is loot-funneling. Lockouts and PF loot inconsistency discourages rational and stable gearing. Still unable to gear up more than one type of class at once thus players are "locked" into one class. Lack of tanks and healers. Weekly lockouts with no leeway (such as one-week grace period to use up lockout slots in case of busy real life, or just wanting a week of break). All in all the whole raiding experience, especially PF, could be vastly improved.
(Healers also forced to dps over healing but not really relevant to this topic.)
Perhaps how raids are designed. How success and failure mechanics are calculated. How mechanics are designed for a varied raid composition. Etc.
And last but not least, the real question, how to redesign ranged physical dps philosophy so they're penalized for simply being able to move and "freeriding on free rdps"? The game shouldn't only have melee and casters, but what niche should ranged physical dps fill? That can still be balanced and simple to fit into the game? (They shouldn't be "the last person to fill up in a 8-man just for the extra 1% stat buff", or "the class bad players play because it's easy", much less "the player who doesn't need and shouldn't get gear because duh").
Continue reading...
I'm a Bard main. I recently got replaced by my static along with either MCH or NIN, main reason being so they could have a better chance at clearing E8S enrage.
I checked statistics on the parse website and I saw that BRD and DNC are bottom on both rdps and adps by a rather noticeable margin. MCH is also far from idea. Summoner was a bit over the top.
After some discussion, it seems most people believe Physical Ranged dps are designed to have lower dps than melee or ranged due to their "flexibility in movement", and "permanent uptime". They also have more damage contribution coming "passively" from raid than personal dps, have more HP than casters, don't have to greed dangerously into mechanics unlike melees, and have somewhat easier and more forgiving rotations.
However, people also have pointed out that in the end, ranged physical dps have to prog with melee and casters too, and in Savage if melee greed and die whole raid dies too. The flexibility in movement and easier learning phase for mechanics does not actually lessen prog time. Furthermore, raids are nowadays carefully designed to always give some kind of space to melee and casters uptime on mechanics, while some mechanics such as look-away, physical ranged dps do not actually get any extra benefit than say melee, and have to do the mechanics anyways. Supposed "aoe benefit" phases such as add phase have also been designed to not benefit ranged dps or multi-dotting (cough E6S, E8S which actually hurts OGCD mains, E7S maybe but it also benefits summoner). And while we can move during our rotations, it doesn't actually make it any easier, especially with Ping-sensitive MCH and ogcd spam BRD. DNCs is now SMNs' 2nd pet.
Thus I hope they can be changed for the better, hopefully by next patch as Ninja fix happened. Hopefully even slightly buffed a bit to "make up" for the experience of this patch. But I digress.
------------
There are many trains of thought for possible fixes, and obviously more than I can come up with alone. I hope good ideas can be made and passed on to SE, but I will attempt some examples.
There can be psychological/ quality-of-life type changes.
To make the player feel better. For instance, DNC prefers to dance MNKs because that monks equal faster gauge and slightly more personal dps. This could be changed to either be set gauge increase for any class, or to be diversified so dancers could multi-dance and change partners, even dance tanks and healers for temporary buffs, etc.
To make the player feel fairly treated. For instance, BRD songs and BV do not benefit the BRD themselves. This is just sad and despiriting. Also, the averaged apprx. 1.2% dps increase from songs also feels rather poorly designed and bland. The move of reducing dot potency while giving a tiny flat increase in sidewinder was also a lackluster move. And tiny things that add up to BRD enrages and discontent. Apex Arrow design also sticks out like a sore thumb.
MCH CD alignments this tier are a pain. For almost every fight. Apart from opener big fat burst, lots of phases are piecemeal CDs. It is unsatisfying.
In the end, with the amount of OGCD we have, you'd think it should feel more satisfying to play the class since it should feel like "happily push button for dps all-you-can-eat". But in reality it is the opposite. It's pressure. We instead feel like if we mash even a bit slower we'd be punished for our already low dps. And after mashing it all, after stats come out, it's disheartening.
There can maybe be some structural changes to raiding.
And this is not just for ranged physical dps. In raids, tanks dps and healers always compete for loot and it's never not a matter. Dps and Dps compete for loot and there is loot-funneling. Lockouts and PF loot inconsistency discourages rational and stable gearing. Still unable to gear up more than one type of class at once thus players are "locked" into one class. Lack of tanks and healers. Weekly lockouts with no leeway (such as one-week grace period to use up lockout slots in case of busy real life, or just wanting a week of break). All in all the whole raiding experience, especially PF, could be vastly improved.
(Healers also forced to dps over healing but not really relevant to this topic.)
Perhaps how raids are designed. How success and failure mechanics are calculated. How mechanics are designed for a varied raid composition. Etc.
And last but not least, the real question, how to redesign ranged physical dps philosophy so they're penalized for simply being able to move and "freeriding on free rdps"? The game shouldn't only have melee and casters, but what niche should ranged physical dps fill? That can still be balanced and simple to fit into the game? (They shouldn't be "the last person to fill up in a 8-man just for the extra 1% stat buff", or "the class bad players play because it's easy", much less "the player who doesn't need and shouldn't get gear because duh").
Continue reading...