The Ascians are fascinating examples of Japanese concepts of honor such as group loyalty, putting the group before personal desire, and ego but on two different extremes. Emet-Selch and Elidibus represent how dedication to duty and loyalty to a group can lead to suffering and loss of individuality, while Fandaniel represents how putting one’s ego and personal desires over duty and the group can lead to malevolence and suffering for others. Most notably in Fandaniel’s case, the Japanese ideal of loyalty to the group, and humility, makes him much evil from their POV, in a similar vein to Yotsuyu. Ego and standing out is frowned upon in Japanese society who prize conformity and humility, which is why in most Japanese media, arrogance is a popular trait to give to villains.
Zen Buddhism, Neo-Confucianism and Shintoism values to heavily simplify are largely about knowing one's place in the world and how happiness can be achieved when you have found a place to belong and a duty to devote yourself to, a positive example would be the Warrior of Light joining the Scions after being a relatively aimless adventurer, and devoting themselves to protecting Eorzea and defeating Primals among other threats and a negative example is the Ascians who are devoted to their people and work towards the restoration of the world but are willing to commit mass genocide for the sake of it, uncaring of what the dead would actually want, but only caring about the duty to restore them.
Now that we have a better context to the ideas cultural perspective behind the characters and story, let’s look at the society of Amaurot, this city is a look into how extreme conformity, devotion to duty, and in group mentality can shape society: Everyone wears a grey cloak and mask, unique clothes are seen as a childish indulgence and one to grow out of, and everyone works for the good of all. We still haven’t seen enough to truly decide if it was a true paradise or if there was a darker side to it all, but some important details must be noted aside from the shark monsters eating scholars: It’s isolation and Azem’s position and reputation.
One side quest has two Ancients discussing whether or not to intervene in a crisis in a faraway land, the first being pro intervention and the latter being against it, Emet-Selch would argue the old world is a far better place and people were as gods, but even in his biased memories, we can see the world outside Amaurot faced problems. It’s very fitting that Emet-Selch would see Amaurot as the center of the world while ignoring the rest of the planet, it’s his home and where his people are, he has no reason to care much about the outside world, only when time came to pass judgement with the rest of the convocation and when it concerned Azem whose job was to explore the rest of the planet. As we learn from Tales from the Shadows, Azem despite being respected by their peers was considered a maverick and a controversial figure, part of it was their decision to go against Convocation rulings, most notably helping an island that was about to be hit by a volcano eruption, despite the decree that the Council not intervene and the people already having evacuated. Now one could take Azem’s desire to save the grapes at face value but the story does note that the Island has quite fertile land that would have been lost in the eruption, by saving the Island, Azem has ensured that a valuable food source has not been lost and people can be fed. From these details, we can see how Azem balances duty and desire, while they ultimately went against their group by saving the Island, Azem ensured a greater good: delicious grapes for all! Oh and more places to grow crops for people outside Amaurot. Fitting as it is them who avoid the fate of becoming an Ascian like the rest of the Convocation and cause Emet-Selch’s change of heart.
On the duty side of the spectrum, Emet-Selch is miserable despite his flippant and joyful nature, he had to live with centuries of having failed his people, but his duty and devotion to the cause kept him bound despite the pain it caused him. During the final battle, he constantly evokes the souls of the dead Ancients to aid him, symbolizing how he fights for his people. Regardless if Zodiark truly has sway over him and the Ascians, it’s clear with or without tempering, Emet-Selch would still be on the same course. Despite his statement of not even seeing the sundered as people, there are hints he feels on the contrary, he has to keep reminding himself that his Garlean family belongs to his meat puppet not to Emet-Selch, still feeling some form of grief over the loss of his son whether or not it was due to having grown attached to him or it was due to the reminder that mortals are weak and frail, and most tellingly hopes the Warrior of Light will succeed in containing the light and hopes for a path of lesser tragedy, not the actions of man who views the sundered as totally without value. Indeed, his last words are a plea to be remembered, showing he finally sees hope in mortals thanks to us. By letting go of his duty and embracing his desire to leave things in the hands of the Warrior of Light and mortals, is Emet-Selch able to find peace and happiness.
In contrast, Elidibus dies crying and laments how he failed to revive his people. “ The rains have ceased and we have been graced with a beautiful day, but you are not here to see it. “ To even make it more painful, Elidibus’s defeat was caused by the man who he sought to avenge and only now does he remember his actual reason for his duty: To see his friends again. Eldibus dies miserable because he’s unable to let go of his duty and devotion to his people, while Emet-Selch dies content having let go of his burden and accepting the loss of his people. Representing how extremes virtues can lead to suffering and soullessness, sometimes accepting the selfish desires can lead to happiness, in Emet-Selch’s case, he betrayed his people, and aided the Warrior of Light against his comrade, but it is him who is content, and despite Elidibus wrapping himself in virtue and proclaiming himself a hero, his last moments are a lament.
On the desire spectrum, Fandaniel is far more gleeful at the idea of abandoning his people and living for his own desires. He doesn’t care for the old world, he's never even lived there, has second hand memories, and is happy at the idea he’s no longer chained to his group, even mockingly refers to the emissary as Old Elidibus. And given his fascination with Zenos, and pledge to prepare his hunting grounds, Fandaniel clearly means to cause death and suffering with his newfound freedom. Unlike the rest of the Ascians, and keeping with the color themes of Shadowbringers, Fandaniel wears white and doesn’t wear a mask, symbolizing he’s a rogue Ascian and plays by his own rules. Despite their methods, Elidibus and Emet-Selch at least had virtues that were admirable even if it lead them to choosing evil, they cared about their people, in contrast Fandaniel is portrayed as the truly evil Ascian, the one who has no loyalties except possibly to Zenos, and unlike Elidibus or Emet-Selch, he isn’t burdened with any emotional baggage, a perversion of how Emet-Selch is able to find peace by abandoning his futile duty and loyalty to the old world.
Even Emet-Selch and Fandaniel’s introductions contrast, Emet-Selch despite his lively performance is always putting emphasis on his duty to revive Zodiark and restoring the planet, meanwhile Fandaniel is outright unhinged and rejoices in the fact that Elidibus and thus Zodiark’s heart is dead, leaving him to do as he pleases. While we still haven’t seen the end of his arc, we can predict that his selfishness will help lead to his defeat. But it would certainly be a nice contrast if Fandaniel developed genuine loyalty to Zenos.
One could draw a parallel between the Exarch’s centuries long duty to save the future, and his desire to join the Warrior of Light but perhaps another time.
In conclusion, the Ascians are effective in demonstrating why extreme virtues and extreme vices can lead to suffering and how poisonous even the most well intentioned virtues can be. Perhaps even serving as a warning towards what the Warrior of Light can become.
submitted by /u/MegaGamer235
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Zen Buddhism, Neo-Confucianism and Shintoism values to heavily simplify are largely about knowing one's place in the world and how happiness can be achieved when you have found a place to belong and a duty to devote yourself to, a positive example would be the Warrior of Light joining the Scions after being a relatively aimless adventurer, and devoting themselves to protecting Eorzea and defeating Primals among other threats and a negative example is the Ascians who are devoted to their people and work towards the restoration of the world but are willing to commit mass genocide for the sake of it, uncaring of what the dead would actually want, but only caring about the duty to restore them.
Now that we have a better context to the ideas cultural perspective behind the characters and story, let’s look at the society of Amaurot, this city is a look into how extreme conformity, devotion to duty, and in group mentality can shape society: Everyone wears a grey cloak and mask, unique clothes are seen as a childish indulgence and one to grow out of, and everyone works for the good of all. We still haven’t seen enough to truly decide if it was a true paradise or if there was a darker side to it all, but some important details must be noted aside from the shark monsters eating scholars: It’s isolation and Azem’s position and reputation.
One side quest has two Ancients discussing whether or not to intervene in a crisis in a faraway land, the first being pro intervention and the latter being against it, Emet-Selch would argue the old world is a far better place and people were as gods, but even in his biased memories, we can see the world outside Amaurot faced problems. It’s very fitting that Emet-Selch would see Amaurot as the center of the world while ignoring the rest of the planet, it’s his home and where his people are, he has no reason to care much about the outside world, only when time came to pass judgement with the rest of the convocation and when it concerned Azem whose job was to explore the rest of the planet. As we learn from Tales from the Shadows, Azem despite being respected by their peers was considered a maverick and a controversial figure, part of it was their decision to go against Convocation rulings, most notably helping an island that was about to be hit by a volcano eruption, despite the decree that the Council not intervene and the people already having evacuated. Now one could take Azem’s desire to save the grapes at face value but the story does note that the Island has quite fertile land that would have been lost in the eruption, by saving the Island, Azem has ensured that a valuable food source has not been lost and people can be fed. From these details, we can see how Azem balances duty and desire, while they ultimately went against their group by saving the Island, Azem ensured a greater good: delicious grapes for all! Oh and more places to grow crops for people outside Amaurot. Fitting as it is them who avoid the fate of becoming an Ascian like the rest of the Convocation and cause Emet-Selch’s change of heart.
On the duty side of the spectrum, Emet-Selch is miserable despite his flippant and joyful nature, he had to live with centuries of having failed his people, but his duty and devotion to the cause kept him bound despite the pain it caused him. During the final battle, he constantly evokes the souls of the dead Ancients to aid him, symbolizing how he fights for his people. Regardless if Zodiark truly has sway over him and the Ascians, it’s clear with or without tempering, Emet-Selch would still be on the same course. Despite his statement of not even seeing the sundered as people, there are hints he feels on the contrary, he has to keep reminding himself that his Garlean family belongs to his meat puppet not to Emet-Selch, still feeling some form of grief over the loss of his son whether or not it was due to having grown attached to him or it was due to the reminder that mortals are weak and frail, and most tellingly hopes the Warrior of Light will succeed in containing the light and hopes for a path of lesser tragedy, not the actions of man who views the sundered as totally without value. Indeed, his last words are a plea to be remembered, showing he finally sees hope in mortals thanks to us. By letting go of his duty and embracing his desire to leave things in the hands of the Warrior of Light and mortals, is Emet-Selch able to find peace and happiness.
In contrast, Elidibus dies crying and laments how he failed to revive his people. “ The rains have ceased and we have been graced with a beautiful day, but you are not here to see it. “ To even make it more painful, Elidibus’s defeat was caused by the man who he sought to avenge and only now does he remember his actual reason for his duty: To see his friends again. Eldibus dies miserable because he’s unable to let go of his duty and devotion to his people, while Emet-Selch dies content having let go of his burden and accepting the loss of his people. Representing how extremes virtues can lead to suffering and soullessness, sometimes accepting the selfish desires can lead to happiness, in Emet-Selch’s case, he betrayed his people, and aided the Warrior of Light against his comrade, but it is him who is content, and despite Elidibus wrapping himself in virtue and proclaiming himself a hero, his last moments are a lament.
On the desire spectrum, Fandaniel is far more gleeful at the idea of abandoning his people and living for his own desires. He doesn’t care for the old world, he's never even lived there, has second hand memories, and is happy at the idea he’s no longer chained to his group, even mockingly refers to the emissary as Old Elidibus. And given his fascination with Zenos, and pledge to prepare his hunting grounds, Fandaniel clearly means to cause death and suffering with his newfound freedom. Unlike the rest of the Ascians, and keeping with the color themes of Shadowbringers, Fandaniel wears white and doesn’t wear a mask, symbolizing he’s a rogue Ascian and plays by his own rules. Despite their methods, Elidibus and Emet-Selch at least had virtues that were admirable even if it lead them to choosing evil, they cared about their people, in contrast Fandaniel is portrayed as the truly evil Ascian, the one who has no loyalties except possibly to Zenos, and unlike Elidibus or Emet-Selch, he isn’t burdened with any emotional baggage, a perversion of how Emet-Selch is able to find peace by abandoning his futile duty and loyalty to the old world.
Even Emet-Selch and Fandaniel’s introductions contrast, Emet-Selch despite his lively performance is always putting emphasis on his duty to revive Zodiark and restoring the planet, meanwhile Fandaniel is outright unhinged and rejoices in the fact that Elidibus and thus Zodiark’s heart is dead, leaving him to do as he pleases. While we still haven’t seen the end of his arc, we can predict that his selfishness will help lead to his defeat. But it would certainly be a nice contrast if Fandaniel developed genuine loyalty to Zenos.
One could draw a parallel between the Exarch’s centuries long duty to save the future, and his desire to join the Warrior of Light but perhaps another time.
In conclusion, the Ascians are effective in demonstrating why extreme virtues and extreme vices can lead to suffering and how poisonous even the most well intentioned virtues can be. Perhaps even serving as a warning towards what the Warrior of Light can become.
submitted by /u/MegaGamer235
[link] [comments]
Continue reading...